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Episode 251
EPISODE DESCRIPTION:
In this personal episode, I sat down with my son Enzo Narciso to discuss his journey of recovery, personal growth, and transformation. Enzo shares candid insights into managing ADHD, maintaining sobriety, and working with adolescent boys struggling with substance misuse.
Drawing from his own experiences of overcoming a high-risk lifestyle and addiction and having to rebuild his health after a life-threatening overdose, Enzo provides hope and practical strategies for parents navigating their child’s recovery journey.
The conversation covers topics including setting boundaries, managing triggers, and the importance of consistency in supporting young people through challenging times. I feel so fortunate to be able to have a conversation like this with my son – I hope it brings you peace and encouragement no matter where you are on your path.
EPISODE RESOURCES:
Narciso Life Strategies Mentoring: call, WhatsApp or text: 619.534.8520
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Enzo Narciso:
Most people learn to walk once when they’re about maybe two ish. I’ve learned to walk once when I was about two ish and then when I was 19. So that’s an experience that you do not Just forget about and , maybe i’m too self critical, but sometimes i’ll be like, ah, I feel Like i’m being too complacent and i’ll look at my phone and see the pictures from the hospital with the ventilator on life support And I just think man I would have to be an idiot and maybe, one day I am an idiot and it happens, but, God willing, I’ll be able to continue living a healthy lifestyle
BRENDA
Welcome to Hopestream, a podcast where you’ll hear interviews, conversations, and encouraging words for parents of teens and young adults who struggle with substance misuse and mental health. I’m Brenda Zane, your host and a fellow parent whose child struggled. I’m so glad you’re here. Take a deep breath and know you’re not doing this alone anymore.
Hi, friend. Well, we are winding down 2024. If you are listening in real time, it’s, I guess, the middle of December feels like the end of December already. But today I have such a special conversation to share with you. I had a little bit of an unexpected visit from my son Enzo, who is the one who has benefited so many people, through his experience and I got to spend a few [00:01:30] days with him before he heads out for his next big traveling adventure. And we’d had such good conversations while he was here visiting that I asked if he would mind kind of rewinding and re having some of those conversations so that we could record them for a podcast episode.
And he agreed. So that’s what you’re going to hear today. Before we jump into that, Oh, I really can’t tell you how unbelievable it feels to be able to have. These conversations in a million years, when we were in the thick of the storm on the roller coaster ride, if somebody would have told me that we would be having the kind of conversations that we do now in 2024, if somebody could have put me in a time machine, I would have never believed it.
And so I say that because I know some of you are in a good place and you’re also sort of reveling and kind of shaking your head in disbelief at the things that your kids are doing now that they’re healthy. And I also know that you might still be in the thick of the storm and you might not see a lot of light at the end of the tunnel.
And, you know, sometimes I ask you to do weird things with me here. And I’m going to ask you to do something [00:03:00] because There’s an exercise that I have found to be incredibly helpful, not just with our kids, but with other things in life. And what it is, is just to close your eyes if it’s safe to do that. if you’re driving or walking, obviously, please be safe.
But close your eyes and see your child in a year, two years, whatever it is for you, healthy, healed, whole, laughing, playing with the dog, coming for a visit, running again, or playing soccer or cooking or dancing or whatever they love to do. See them doing that. And just spend a minute with your eyes closed.
visualizing them doing that, what are they wearing? What is their hair like? What do they smell like? What are they doing later this afternoon that’s healthy for them? Just capture that snapshot, capture that moment.
And I say to do this because it is truly transformative and how You might go about approaching your day, how you might go about approaching the next conversation you have with them, because you [00:04:30] now have a mental snapshot of them when they come out of this, when you get them back. And it is so powerful.
I give credit to this particular use of this visualization technique to a beautiful woman that I met when I was facilitating the partnership to Parent calls each week, and we used to say there were some Ruth iss. So Ruth, if you’re listening, this is thanks to you. And if you have been to those calls and you know who I’m talking about, you know that this woman is incredibly special.
And she really helped a lot of us find a little glimmer of hope and a glimmer of what’s possible. And we were really able to kind of. Step over the mess and the muck and the whatever is going on today. Because you now have that picture and you know, okay, that’s where we’re headed. That’s what we’re doing.
And I am so incredibly blessed to have that today. I don’t take one second of the time I get to spend with my son for granted. I stop everything, people at work know this, when he comes to town, kind of everything stops because I know that time is so precious and I still just look at him and see the light in his eyes and his smile and listen [00:06:00] to the way his brain thinks and know that it’s an absolute gift.
So I just hope that you can do the same. and get a few moments to see your child whole and healed and healthy. And that will give you maybe a little bit of motivation and strength, to get through another day. So the conversation you’ll hear are just some things that Enzo and I had been talking about during his visit.
I really wanted to capture them. I think the biggest thing for me is that I realized that this visit in particular. My shoulders were never up around my ears. I never waited up for him at night. I just was able to enjoy him as a human being and not as a potential, catastrophe that has been in the past.
So these were just a few of those conversations that I wanted to capture from the time we had together, riding in the car, walking through a mall, sitting on the couch, just having normal day to day conversations. But I think there’ll be helpful. So please enjoy this mother son conversation with Enzo Narciso.
Enjoy.
[00:07:18] Brenda: Hey, and so thank you for hopping on with me while I have you in the house for just a short amount of time. I thought it’d be good just to capture a couple of things that we’ve [00:07:30] been talking about over the last few days. I was thinking, Oh man, it would have been so cool if we’d been recording these conversations that we have with each other, just organically. thanks for hopping on.
[00:07:41] Enzo Narciso: absolutely.
[00:07:42] Brenda: One of the things that, so today we did, we went, we did a little bit ofwhich was really nice, but one of the things that I was thinking about while we were shopping is we ran into somebody that you went to high school with. I would have considered him one of your quote unquote good friends, but,
[00:07:57] Enzo Narciso: He was a good guy.
[00:07:58] Brenda: he’s a good guy.
And, it made me think about what is that like when you’re back in the same environment, Of the, Locations where you used to be doing stuff or using or the friends that you were with, , I would just, I think it’d be super helpful to know what that’s like for somebody both now, but also if you go back to, , when you were like 16.
[00:08:23] Enzo Narciso: Yeah. right now, it’s a lot different than what it was when I was, one year out of the lifestyle, two years out of the lifestyle, even three, coming out. , it really did change over time and slowly. and the major change was that. in the beginning, I had felt like, is this real?
When I would come back home and I would see all the same trees, the same bus stops, the same stores, everything. And it was like, are you really living this different lifestyle? Are you really committed to living differently now? Because you’re back home and you can, you feel all the emotions [00:09:00] of when you were in the area and you were living really unhealthily. But now coming. Back and this has been about let’s see seven years clean or seven years into a healthier lifestyle i’m more confident, I guess I would say and i’m more confident in the lifestyle that i’m living and the The transition is more settled and so it’s a lot easier to come back and Not get into the same head space a little bit And you know once I did have the dramatic change that I had I was committed to You Making a difference, but coming back to the same environment fresh out of that time period, it would bring back a lot of more, a lot more emotions that would they weren’t great.
It would just I would get into a headspace and um,ruminate, and question whether this is really what I’m going to be living like, a healthier lifestyle. and so seeing my friend today, thank God it was a good friend of mine that I had made before I really started to go off the deep end and get into a lot of trouble.
[00:10:02] Brenda: Right?
[00:10:03] Enzo Narciso: so seeing him was a lot different than, for example, seeing like an old friend I would not consider a good friend of mine from back before.
[00:10:11] Brenda: Yeah. And what about when you were, because you went to wilderness and then you went to residential treatment, which you decided to leave early , but then you went through a couple of other treatment. experiences and you would come home and [00:10:30] those periods of, sobriety or whatever you want to call it, didn’t really last very long.
Do you remember what that was like and what was going on in your head? Like you’d bet you did so well when you were in treatment and then you would come home and it was like, what’s going on? He’s right back to the old shenanigan.
[00:10:50] Enzo Narciso: yeah, everything went out the window really quickly, and it was the fact that I wasn’t really committed to making a change and to living healthily. it was more that I didn’t actually think that I was gonna be able to make it, and I didn’t really even want to.
I was in this phase where I’m like, let’s just go to treatment, stop using for a while.come home, maybe I’ll just smoke weed when I get home is how I’d always say it. And then of course, one thing would lead to another and I’d be back in the mix with all the other things shortly after that. So coming back home now is different because the catalyst of what really did change my perspective. It was so enormously impactful and like immediate and like, it was so Immediately impactful and real that it was just something that I couldn’t ignore and so when I would come home after treatment, there wasn’t something that was a really hit that scared me that was actually physically painful.
There’s plenty of emotional pain. But after overdosing, the [00:12:00] effect was so impactful on my mind, my body, everything about it that I knew that there was gonna be no Going back unless I really wanted to live that lifestyle and that was how I wanted to live for the rest of my life So now it’s much easier as compared to before when the catalyst was not as you know There were many difficult things that I was going through at the time, but none were actually that motivating factor that I do have now
[00:12:25] Brenda: there were smaller consequences that took place, but nothing that was as dramatic, like you said, as overdosing, heart attack, stroke, all that kind of stuff, which you went through, um, well, and I, and I noticed even with myself, because, you know, When you used to come home, you know, years ago, even when you were doing well and you would say, Oh, I’m going to go with so and so, or I’m going to go, you know, spend time with this person.
And I would have those
old reactions, like my heart would beat and I would think, Oh my gosh, what, I would be so worried and I would lay awake until I heard you. Come home. And now I don’t do that. So I thought, wow, I think we’ve both come a long way that, you can be with somebody like you were this on this trip who is actively using fentanyl.
And I didn’t, it never even occurred to me to worry about it. That you are going to go see him. So I just think that’s huge progress that we’ve both made, you building trust and me [00:13:30] seeing your lifestyle. but man, it takes a long time. like you said, we are seven years.
[00:13:36] Enzo Narciso: Yeah, and I want to make it clear that to the listeners, like the friend that we ran into today is not the friend that, you That
just mentioned.
She, different friend of mine who unfortunately is still going through the process. And thank God he’s respectful enough to not use in front of me.
And it’s been different in the past. And he’s gone through his ups and downs through his using journey. And,but there’s part of, there’s things that I do to Mitigate that exposure still just because I don’t like it. I don’t like to have to see that, you know So I instead of going and spending time at his apartment with it, and things there It’s let’s go to dinner.
I’ll take you to dinner
[00:14:12] Brenda: right.
[00:14:13] Enzo Narciso: and so bringing him out of that environment and bringing him into a place where we’re both together in public and hang Out and can spend time And then if we want to sit and talk privately sit in the car outside before he goes in, and not Expose myself to don’t put myself in an opportunity where he can possibly bring that into the mix
[00:14:32] Brenda: Yeah, no, that’s super smart. But yeah, that just felt like a lot of growth. the other thing that we talk about often is ADHD. And I just recently had a doctor on who was talking about ADHD and how, it makes sense that kids medicate self medicate with weed because it works. for a while, they think it does.
It actually doesn’t, but it appears to work. but I thought it would be [00:15:00] cool if you could give some insight into how ADHD shows up in your life and then what you’ve done to wrangle it because you’ve done a really good job. And I know you’ve said in, you were a guest speaker for us in our community and you said, even if you had the option to go back and have it not be part of you, that you wouldn’t.
So I’m that a little bit.
[00:15:24] Enzo Narciso: Yeah, so what I was saying there was that I really do think it is a gift, honestly, and it’s the ability to focus so intently on one thing, if it’s interesting. If it’s interesting, it’s not, I, it’s a complete lack of focus. If there’s something that’s not interesting, but if there’s something that is interesting, I cannot leave it alone. And when it’s focused on healthy things, like going to the gym, or committing to a diet, or whatever, learning of something, particularly if I want to learn about a topic, I will not put it down, and I’m grateful for that. And On the other side, there’s other times, maybe I’ll just describe what ADHD is like for somebody that maybe wondering, what is my kid going through?
Imagine the wind blowing on the window of the room where you are. And then two hours later, you’re driving down the street with a burrito. And you’re on the way to somewhere else. And then you, and then, you come home two hours later after that, after getting to wherever you were and you feel, Oh my gosh, I started this paper and I can’t believe I have an hour now to finish it. [00:16:30] So little things like I can think about one thing for five seconds and then. I hear an ambulance. And so I go, Oh gosh, what if that was like somebody that I love, And then I think, gosh, I’m grateful not to be in a medical situation like that. And then I think, well, I have been in a situation that was pretty critical at one point, man.
[00:16:50] Enzo Narciso: I wonder what my mom. Was going through when she found out about that. And then the list, and then it just takes me on a full ride and gone for, and who knows where it’s going to go. so that’s the idea there. and I have a couple of little ways that I’ve dealt with it. but one thing I would say is if, I really want to discourage the negative talk about medication. Honestly, I do think medication is the right play for some people, because in, in certain situations. I’ve seen it work with kids that are just clearly such ADHD case studies, but with the right dose and the right medication, they do incredibly well, a lot of research that is shown to, that does help a lot of people. The other thing I’ll say is that there’s an immediate connection between ADHD and addiction. particularly untreated ADHD has an extremely high, Drug use correlation. So that’s just something that I think if we can solve that with medication, that’s a far [00:18:00] healthier way to do it so, I mean, I think, With the right dose, the right medication helps, but with a psychiatrist,I don’t want to say that’s not a good option. if you ask me, what are some strategies that I use? I would say that, what I do for myself is that I go and I have, I write things down like crazy. I like, I have to write things down immediately. I have to immediately use reminders in my phone. Once something gets scheduled. I have to put it in my phone immediately. And then whiteboards have saved me and recently a whiteboard just saved me with an assignment that I was doing. I got, home for the day, took a shower in no rush, it’s 11 40 p. m. And I look at my whiteboard for the day and boom, there’s an assignment due,thankfully because of pre planning I had worked a lot on the assignment ahead of time and I just had to upload it, do one last thing. But whiteboards have saved me a ton of headache. So I have two in my room I have one on one wall and I have one on the other wall so that’s the thing and then also using the environment So if I know I need to do laundryI will go and take my laundry basket and I will put it in front of my door so I can’t leave The room without seeing my laundry.
So as soon as I think oh, I should do laundry. Boom I just put the basket right there. It doesn’t mean I do it right away I just put it in my way so that I cannot miss it and then same thing once it goes in the dryer I put the laundry basket in my way in the hallway when I walk [00:19:30] by it so that I can’t possibly walk by without noticing Oh, yeah, I have something in that
[00:19:34] Brenda: Right.
[00:19:35] Enzo Narciso: something in the dryer.
So I need to go and deal with that so
[00:19:38] Brenda: Yeah. I love practical things like that. And I remember one time seeing you, I think you were still in high school, but I can’t totally remember where you were walking around with the oven mitt on your hand. I’m like, why is he walking around with an oven mitt on his hand? And you said, Oh, I put some like chicken dinos in the, And if I don’t walk around with the oven mitt on, I will forget that they’re in there.
And so when you would look down and see it, it would remind you to go check on the chicken dino. So I just think there’s, it’s good to hear. It’s really good for parents to hear practical things like that, because I think, yes, medication and yes, tutoring or whatever, but there’s just some basic stuff like that, that
I think it’s helpful to see, not that we want parents to go and Oh, you need to get a whiteboard or you need to do this, but maybe they can just start like brainstorming with their kids.
Cause I bet they can come up with that stuff if they have the opportunity.
[00:20:31] Enzo Narciso: Yeah, everybody knows they can do reminders on their phone. Everybody knows they can set alarms.but actually doing it is the part that has
saved me, anybody can know about that. One last thing I’ll say about, um, physical environment is my toothbrush. So the toothbrush, if I leave it in the bathroom, There’s such a low chance that I’m going to actually think, Oh, I need to brush my teeth and then go into the bathroom and brush my teeth. So I put my toothbrush on my counter [00:21:00] right by my door when I leave. so if I’m on the way to the door, there’s no way. That I’m not going to see the toothbrush. And I,
the last couple of times we’ve gone to the dentist, they’ve been thrilled with my teeth. So I’m, I guess that’s a good sign. So it’s working out great, and it’s just little things like that, that are like cool , my environment’s not set up the way. That works for me and I don’t have a whiteboard. I can just, there are things that are going to slip and I’m not going to remember them. I will be doing something else fun that I enjoy that my ADHD has locked myself in on. Oh
[00:21:34] Brenda: stock market. So that’s one of the, that’s one of the good things is when you, and we talk about this all the time in the community with our moms is they always say, if my kid is so brilliant and so can focus so much that if they can figure out a way to turn this energy into something positive and legal. they’ll be incredibly successful. And I’ve seen you do that, which is so fun to see you really focus on finance and the stock market and go deep. And then also for like golf. So anyway, that’s super cool. we were talking, I think it was today about Boundaries and you work with adolescent boys who are struggling and try and find their way.
And I would say boundaries and this desire to control people’s lives are two of the biggest things that we as parents really struggle with. [00:22:30] And so we had started talking today about how important it is to set boundaries and you see this every day in your work. So I thought I’d just What does that look like for you guys?
When could you got eight or ten adolescent boys all in the same house. that’s got to just be a little bit of chaos, but talk about boundaries.
[00:22:49] Enzo Narciso: Yeah, sometimes it’s 14 or 15, you know, so yeah, so one of them is going to break the boundary every day. There’s no question about that.
[00:22:58] Brenda: Hey there, are you feeling stuck in a cycle of drama and arguments with your child? Worried sick about their substance use? I have been there and I want you to know there’s hope. This podcast is just one piece of the curated and trustworthy resources and solutions we offer for parents. We recognize you need emotional support and a solid plan for moving forward, making positive change in your family.
So, in addition to connecting with other parents, we also teach you practical skills and strategies to dial down the drama and diffuse those heated moments. We step you through the evidence based craft approach, a game changer that can help you invite your child to accept help without resorting to tough love or waiting for rock bottom.
We have so much more than the podcast waiting for you. Head over to Hopestreamcommunity. org to tap into all of our resources and become part of the Hopestream family in our private online community. Remember, you’re [00:24:00] not alone in this. We’re doing it together. Now let’s get back to the conversation.
boundaries are funny because it’s not, it’s something that once it is in place, it is super easy to manage. And if you have a process for holding a boundary, like for me, for example, when there’s a kid who’s broken a rule or done something that he shouldn’t have done, I have a playbook that I go into this situation with and it’s, it works almost every time,
[00:24:28] Enzo Narciso: the playbook is this. So you don’t want to knee jerk reaction when you have a kid that breaks a boundary. That’s the first thing you don’t want to. Instantly break into a this is the rule and then now you’re flustered and the kid is going to go into fight or flight and it’s not going to work out the way a knee jerk reaction tends to make you feel like it will work out, so,say there’s a kid who’s been bullying somebody else, right? And there’s a consequence for it that I’ve taken a minute to collect myself before I address the situation to make sure that I’m not flustered. I’m not the one that’s going to be triggering his fight or flight response to the best of my ability. And then once I’ve thought through, okay, this is what the consequences, this is what we’re going to tell the kid, I’ll bring them in.
And I will be in a lower physical environment. Likeif the kid walks in and he’s standing, I will sit down. Okay. If the kid sits down, and I’m sitting down, I will sit on a basketball lower down. Alright, if the kid is sitting on the [00:25:30] ground, I’m gonna lay down and lay back because, it psychologically puts the kid. In a more comfortable position when you’re lower. I don’t know what the science behind it is, but it seems to work. And
[00:25:40] Enzo Narciso: so that’s the first thing I will. And it’s the little hacks work out. next thing is, don’t want to trigger the kids fight or flight response when I’m holding a boundary So that really comes down to tonality. And your body language. So tonality is a little bit it’s hard to explain how did the tonality would work, but I’m never going to say something like this. Like you were bullying this kid. And so now you’re going to be on a consequence. Right. That is not the way that I want to do it it’d be much, much more effective to go because of your bullying to the other kid today, you’re going to be on a consequence. Also, I go straight to it. That way is a lot less room for detours and surprises. And we’re not, catching the kid from left field.
[00:26:30] Brenda: You had talked about the importance of consistency versus saying here’s going to be like either here’s the boundary, here’s the consequence and then not enforcing it.
[00:26:44] Enzo Narciso: Yeah. That’s absolutely critical. The worst thing that could happen is For your kid to break the boundary and the kid knows that you saw, but you didn’t hold him to the standard that you said you were going to, that is going to shatter the credibility. So it’s a, [00:27:00] So it has to come and it has to come repeatedly every time and that’s The most critical thing so they can count on you to hold that boundary
the downside here is that well, so it feels oh my gosh every time I have to you know every time he comes home smelling like weed.
I need to address like Okay, I mean, I would ask the audience Who do you think that the kid is going to come to? When there’s been a boundary broken against the kid’s boundary has been broken say His mp3 player has been taken. Okay. The kid is not going to go to the staff member who is very loosey goosey, wishy washy with the rule. They’re going to come to me or somebody that is repeatedly holding the boundaries because they can count on me to solve the issue. So it’s a two way street. It’s the thing where it’s like I’m consistently going to hold these boundaries because I hold you to the same standard every time. But if something happens to you, you can trust that I’m going to hold the other person who slighted you to the same standard. And so.
it’s a two way street and it’s so much more comfortable to know that there’s an adult figure in your life that’s going to hold you accountable, but that’s also there to help you if something’s happened to you. Because I see it happen all the time. What happens is they don’t go to the staff who’s wishy washy, loosey goosey on all the rules.
They go to the staff who they know is going to
be consistent with it because they know that I’m going to either find the MP3, we’re going to figure out who took it right now, or soon it’s going to be found and there’s going to be a consequence for stealing. So that’s the upside of holding
these boundaries and holding [00:28:30] the kids accountable on a consistent basis.
[00:28:32] Brenda: Yeah, totally. I can see that. Just the dependability and it’s hard for parents because they say, Oh, I’m just, I’m exhausted. it’s just ongoing and it’s, I’m so tired of doing this, but so it’s good to hear that consistency, even if it feels like you’ve done it too many times.
10 times this week or whatever it is that it’s really important and that you’re actually, it feels counterintuitive, but you’re actually building trust. And I think the other thing that it shows is you’re modeling the behavior that you want your child to do. So if you’re consistent in your actions and you do what you say, you’re going to do, the same behavior that you would like to see from your child.
And the other thing is, and I know that this is true cause I talked to all the moms about it is you guys are so smart and so brilliant You wouldn’t be home on time and I would text you and you would have me so spun up like, it’s only 1203 and it’s officially 1205. But then if it’s, but then we had to stop and get gas and then and there was like this long story. Associated with why you were late and I would get so caught up in the story that I would forget to stand back and say, interesting story. You were supposed to be home at midnight. It’s so hard.
[00:29:51] Enzo Narciso: And so that’s another thing. going into these conversations where you’re addressing a boundary that’s been broken or some kind of behavior that’s unacceptable,the [00:30:00] Main strategy that the kids use, okay, is that they will throw out a, whoa, hold on, whoa, there’s this kind of thing that happened.
Oh, and also, and so it’s if they’re to be able to sit in, this is part of my process ahead of time when I have these conversations with the kids, I’m going to go ahead in my head and I’m going to say, okay, we’re focused in this conversation that I’m about to have is focused on this boundary being broken. And this is the consequence. Okay. I’m not concerned about whether the other kid the other day did this thing and it will for him and the other staff said and then so when these kind of things start flying and they’re gonna fly because they This is the smart thing for the kid to do is to try and throw you off To identify oh, hey this that’s a distractor right there Like he just threw out a curveball that is trying to distract me into my favorite phrase For when that happens is I understand that or that’s a separate conversation.
those two things that I understand that is good because it acknowledges that something that they’ve made a comment about something.
[00:31:02] Brenda: You’re validating them.
[00:31:03] Enzo Narciso: Yeah, I understand that. That’s okay. but I’m not perfectly agreeing at the same time. I say, I understand that. The thing is that we’re talking about this topic right here. So I just need you to acknowledge that. And if you want to tell me about something else afterward, okay. oh, it’s, oh, my sister did this the other night, and da, and okay, I understand that. Alright, this is a separate conversation.
knowing Those kind of things ahead of time and having a plan ahead of time like okay This is the [00:31:30] conversation It’s likely that they’re going to try and deflect or distract or whatever the smart thing for the kid to do would be It’s likely that they’re going to do that and we’re going to stay on track so those are things that have been ingrained into my head after having a hundred thousand of these conversations that you know, my checklist is very brief.
[00:31:46] Enzo Narciso: It’s okay. This is the consequence. This is the boundary You There’s probably going to be some deflections if those come we’re going to revert back to okay I understand that right or that’s a separate discussion or that’s a separate issue And then we’re going to get back on track and now we’re really rolling towards where we need to go in the conversation.
Right,
[00:32:21] Brenda: just, proceed calmly is really smart.
And like you said, you’ve had, Thousands of these conversations because you are working, you’ve worked for several years with adolescent boys, which I still, you know, I sometimes think about that and it just still boggles my mind that you’re
working with the kids like you were, years ago and so cool.
And then you also do mentoring with adolescent boys. They’ve left treatment and they’re trying to, they’re in that sort of wobbly stage. What do you like about that? you’ve already worked with the kids, like they’re in treatment.
And then, what is it about mentoring younger guys once they’re [00:33:00] out and they’re
In that really fragile phase that you were in so many times and you couldn’t, keep it together.
[00:33:07] Enzo Narciso: Yeah, so it goes back to the first Reason why I even like working with kids in general and the One of the best things is when a kid goes home and they text me or they call me and they tell me Oh, dude, I did this thing and it actually worked in my in the and i’m like, okaythank you for telling me that because that’s like a that’s an extra benefit That comes with the job because I know that i’ve told the kid maybe try this And then they actually listened and they tried it and then they were so excited with the result That they came and they told me and sothat’s a reward that’s different than money that’s different than a good job from your boss or whatever the situation may be so that’s the main thing that I love about when they’re working in the job at all And so actually doing that with a kid and actually having him on a regular basis consistently You Like telling them like this is what I would do in this situation or this is how it was worked for me before and maybe try that and then to see them play it out and to see the result of Oh, yeah, I did get into the band then I’m like, okay, dude Yeah, just run with it So just don’t you know, like that is such an exciting thing for me because I get to see the process I get to see the result too.
So It’s nice. I love it when the kids hit me up later a year later and they message me Oh, dude, I did this thing and it actually worked [00:34:30] out for me And so that’s phenomenal but to actually go through that process with them is something that I love to do
[00:34:35] Brenda: That’s so cool. I think it’s so important because you have the street cred to be able to say, Hey, why don’t you try this? Whereas I feel as mom, like I would try to do that. And it just didn’t fly because I don’t understand your world, right? I just feel like it’s so important for them to have somebody that they can look to and say, okay, Enzo was in the trenches too.
Like he’s been through this. He has struggled with being addicted to these substances or like we were talking about today, even being addicted to a lifestyle that you loved. And it met so many of your needs and it was so dangerous, but I think for them to have somebody. Who checks that box and is now on the other side of that is just so important.
Yeah. walking process, a live action. This is what happened with my boss. They told me this. Okay. And then just somebody to bounce that off and as somebody who’s been a manager before, or been in a situation with a girlfriend is, a little bit different from the 50 minute once every other week kind of thing about what’s going on inside your head. It’s more like what are the actual steps working and going through that process?
[00:35:49] Brenda: And both are hugely valuable. Yeah.
[00:35:52] Enzo Narciso: Like, how do you do it? The kids know that they should work hard. The kids know that they should be respectful to their mom and dad, [00:36:00] but how,
how do you work, how do you get ahead at your job?how do you reach out to somebody who might be able to promote your band? How do you do, that’s,
those are the kinds of things that kind of go under the rug.
[00:36:11] Brenda: That’s super cool. I know I need to let you go, but I would just love to hear from you. Like it’s coming up on eight years. It’ll be eight years in the spring since, you basically did die from an overdose, although they can’t figure out how you managed to come back to life and all of the stuff that came with that, I think a lot of people don’t.
Realize the physical rehabilitation that you had to go through, let alone, figuring out your relationship with substances and the lifestyle that you were in, but just the physical rehab of being on the stroke unit, having to relearn how to tie your shoes and tell time and all of that.
Like what’s kept you from sliding back into some of those old. Patterns those old habits,
[00:36:59] Enzo Narciso: it’s been a couple of things. I think the main thing is it was such a consequential event to learn to walk again. And most people learn to walk once when they’re about maybe two ish. I’ve learned to walk once when I was about two ish maybe around there and then when I was 19. So that was that’s an experience that you do not Just forget about and , sometimes i’ll be I’ll feel maybe i’m too self critical, but sometimes i’ll be like, ah, I feel you know Like i’m being too complacent and i’ll look at my phone and see the pictures [00:37:30] from the hospital with the ventilator on life support And I just think man I would have to be an idiot I would have to be an idiot and maybe, God forbid one day I’m, maybe I am an idiot and it happens, but, God willing, I’ll be able to continue living a healthy lifestyle and I just really love it.
I really love living a healthy lifestyle and having good relationships with my family and being able to work out. My brother and I just got back, we went to the gym. worked out legs. And I remember not being able to walk and learning to walk with a walker, like an old man at the age of 19. So that kind of an experience is just something that you, it was what I needed, honestly, it was what I needed to go through.
And, and thank God I made it through.
[00:38:14] Brenda: Right. Well, I will second that for sure. thank you. these are important questions that parents want to hear from people like you on, and really get a little peek inside, like under the hood of what’s going on in your brain. So thanks for coming and visiting and joining me again on the podcast.
[00:38:34] Enzo Narciso: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:38:36] Brenda: Okay, my friend, that is a wrap for today. Don’t forget to download the new ebook, Worried Sick. It’s totally free and it will shed so much light on positive tools and strategies you can use right now to start creating those positive conditions for change in your home and in your relationships. It is at hopestreamcommunity.
org forward slash [00:39:00] worried. And guess what? We have moved the entire podcast to our website at HopeStreamCommunity. org. So now when you want the show notes or resources, or if you want to download a transcript, just go to HopeStreamCommunity. org and click on podcast and you will find it all there. You can search by keyword, episode number, guest name, and we have created playlists for you.
Makes it much easier to find episodes grouped by topic. So we’re really excited to have that done and hope you like. The podcast’s new home. Please be extraordinarily good to yourself today. Take a deep breath. You’ve got this and you are going to be okay. You’re not doing it alone. I will meet you right back here next week.
Most people learn to walk once when they’re about maybe two ish. I’ve learned to walk once when I was about two ish and then when I was 19. So that’s an experience that you do not Just forget about and , maybe i’m too self critical, but sometimes i’ll be like, ah, I feel Like i’m being too complacent and i’ll look at my phone and see the pictures from the hospital with the ventilator on life support And I just think man I would have to be an idiot and maybe, one day I am an idiot and it happens, but, God willing, I’ll be able to continue living a healthy lifestyle
BRENDA
Welcome to Hopestream, a podcast where you’ll hear interviews, conversations, and encouraging words for parents of teens and young adults who struggle with substance misuse and mental health. I’m Brenda Zane, your host and a fellow parent whose child struggled. I’m so glad you’re here. Take a deep breath and know you’re not doing this alone anymore.
Hi, friend. Well, we are winding down 2024. If you are listening in real time, it’s, I guess, the middle of December feels like the end of December already. But today I have such a special conversation to share with you. I had a little bit of an unexpected visit from my son Enzo, who is the one who has benefited so many people, through his experience and I got to spend a few [00:01:30] days with him before he heads out for his next big traveling adventure. And we’d had such good conversations while he was here visiting that I asked if he would mind kind of rewinding and re having some of those conversations so that we could record them for a podcast episode.
And he agreed. So that’s what you’re going to hear today. Before we jump into that, Oh, I really can’t tell you how unbelievable it feels to be able to have. These conversations in a million years, when we were in the thick of the storm on the roller coaster ride, if somebody would have told me that we would be having the kind of conversations that we do now in 2024, if somebody could have put me in a time machine, I would have never believed it.
And so I say that because I know some of you are in a good place and you’re also sort of reveling and kind of shaking your head in disbelief at the things that your kids are doing now that they’re healthy. And I also know that you might still be in the thick of the storm and you might not see a lot of light at the end of the tunnel.
And, you know, sometimes I ask you to do weird things with me here. And I’m going to ask you to do something [00:03:00] because There’s an exercise that I have found to be incredibly helpful, not just with our kids, but with other things in life. And what it is, is just to close your eyes if it’s safe to do that. if you’re driving or walking, obviously, please be safe.
But close your eyes and see your child in a year, two years, whatever it is for you, healthy, healed, whole, laughing, playing with the dog, coming for a visit, running again, or playing soccer or cooking or dancing or whatever they love to do. See them doing that. And just spend a minute with your eyes closed.
visualizing them doing that, what are they wearing? What is their hair like? What do they smell like? What are they doing later this afternoon that’s healthy for them? Just capture that snapshot, capture that moment.
And I say to do this because it is truly transformative and how You might go about approaching your day, how you might go about approaching the next conversation you have with them, because you [00:04:30] now have a mental snapshot of them when they come out of this, when you get them back. And it is so powerful.
I give credit to this particular use of this visualization technique to a beautiful woman that I met when I was facilitating the partnership to Parent calls each week, and we used to say there were some Ruth iss. So Ruth, if you’re listening, this is thanks to you. And if you have been to those calls and you know who I’m talking about, you know that this woman is incredibly special.
And she really helped a lot of us find a little glimmer of hope and a glimmer of what’s possible. And we were really able to kind of. Step over the mess and the muck and the whatever is going on today. Because you now have that picture and you know, okay, that’s where we’re headed. That’s what we’re doing.
And I am so incredibly blessed to have that today. I don’t take one second of the time I get to spend with my son for granted. I stop everything, people at work know this, when he comes to town, kind of everything stops because I know that time is so precious and I still just look at him and see the light in his eyes and his smile and listen [00:06:00] to the way his brain thinks and know that it’s an absolute gift.
So I just hope that you can do the same. and get a few moments to see your child whole and healed and healthy. And that will give you maybe a little bit of motivation and strength, to get through another day. So the conversation you’ll hear are just some things that Enzo and I had been talking about during his visit.
I really wanted to capture them. I think the biggest thing for me is that I realized that this visit in particular. My shoulders were never up around my ears. I never waited up for him at night. I just was able to enjoy him as a human being and not as a potential, catastrophe that has been in the past.
So these were just a few of those conversations that I wanted to capture from the time we had together, riding in the car, walking through a mall, sitting on the couch, just having normal day to day conversations. But I think there’ll be helpful. So please enjoy this mother son conversation with Enzo Narciso.
Enjoy.
[00:07:18] Brenda: Hey, and so thank you for hopping on with me while I have you in the house for just a short amount of time. I thought it’d be good just to capture a couple of things that we’ve [00:07:30] been talking about over the last few days. I was thinking, Oh man, it would have been so cool if we’d been recording these conversations that we have with each other, just organically. thanks for hopping on.
[00:07:41] Enzo Narciso: absolutely.
[00:07:42] Brenda: One of the things that, so today we did, we went, we did a little bit ofwhich was really nice, but one of the things that I was thinking about while we were shopping is we ran into somebody that you went to high school with. I would have considered him one of your quote unquote good friends, but,
[00:07:57] Enzo Narciso: He was a good guy.
[00:07:58] Brenda: he’s a good guy.
And, it made me think about what is that like when you’re back in the same environment, Of the, Locations where you used to be doing stuff or using or the friends that you were with, , I would just, I think it’d be super helpful to know what that’s like for somebody both now, but also if you go back to, , when you were like 16.
[00:08:23] Enzo Narciso: Yeah. right now, it’s a lot different than what it was when I was, one year out of the lifestyle, two years out of the lifestyle, even three, coming out. , it really did change over time and slowly. and the major change was that. in the beginning, I had felt like, is this real?
When I would come back home and I would see all the same trees, the same bus stops, the same stores, everything. And it was like, are you really living this different lifestyle? Are you really committed to living differently now? Because you’re back home and you can, you feel all the emotions [00:09:00] of when you were in the area and you were living really unhealthily. But now coming. Back and this has been about let’s see seven years clean or seven years into a healthier lifestyle i’m more confident, I guess I would say and i’m more confident in the lifestyle that i’m living and the The transition is more settled and so it’s a lot easier to come back and Not get into the same head space a little bit And you know once I did have the dramatic change that I had I was committed to You Making a difference, but coming back to the same environment fresh out of that time period, it would bring back a lot of more, a lot more emotions that would they weren’t great.
It would just I would get into a headspace and um,ruminate, and question whether this is really what I’m going to be living like, a healthier lifestyle. and so seeing my friend today, thank God it was a good friend of mine that I had made before I really started to go off the deep end and get into a lot of trouble.
[00:10:02] Brenda: Right?
[00:10:03] Enzo Narciso: so seeing him was a lot different than, for example, seeing like an old friend I would not consider a good friend of mine from back before.
[00:10:11] Brenda: Yeah. And what about when you were, because you went to wilderness and then you went to residential treatment, which you decided to leave early , but then you went through a couple of other treatment. experiences and you would come home and [00:10:30] those periods of, sobriety or whatever you want to call it, didn’t really last very long.
Do you remember what that was like and what was going on in your head? Like you’d bet you did so well when you were in treatment and then you would come home and it was like, what’s going on? He’s right back to the old shenanigan.
[00:10:50] Enzo Narciso: yeah, everything went out the window really quickly, and it was the fact that I wasn’t really committed to making a change and to living healthily. it was more that I didn’t actually think that I was gonna be able to make it, and I didn’t really even want to.
I was in this phase where I’m like, let’s just go to treatment, stop using for a while.come home, maybe I’ll just smoke weed when I get home is how I’d always say it. And then of course, one thing would lead to another and I’d be back in the mix with all the other things shortly after that. So coming back home now is different because the catalyst of what really did change my perspective. It was so enormously impactful and like immediate and like, it was so Immediately impactful and real that it was just something that I couldn’t ignore and so when I would come home after treatment, there wasn’t something that was a really hit that scared me that was actually physically painful.
There’s plenty of emotional pain. But after overdosing, the [00:12:00] effect was so impactful on my mind, my body, everything about it that I knew that there was gonna be no Going back unless I really wanted to live that lifestyle and that was how I wanted to live for the rest of my life So now it’s much easier as compared to before when the catalyst was not as you know There were many difficult things that I was going through at the time, but none were actually that motivating factor that I do have now
[00:12:25] Brenda: there were smaller consequences that took place, but nothing that was as dramatic, like you said, as overdosing, heart attack, stroke, all that kind of stuff, which you went through, um, well, and I, and I noticed even with myself, because, you know, When you used to come home, you know, years ago, even when you were doing well and you would say, Oh, I’m going to go with so and so, or I’m going to go, you know, spend time with this person.
And I would have those
old reactions, like my heart would beat and I would think, Oh my gosh, what, I would be so worried and I would lay awake until I heard you. Come home. And now I don’t do that. So I thought, wow, I think we’ve both come a long way that, you can be with somebody like you were this on this trip who is actively using fentanyl.
And I didn’t, it never even occurred to me to worry about it. That you are going to go see him. So I just think that’s huge progress that we’ve both made, you building trust and me [00:13:30] seeing your lifestyle. but man, it takes a long time. like you said, we are seven years.
[00:13:36] Enzo Narciso: Yeah, and I want to make it clear that to the listeners, like the friend that we ran into today is not the friend that, you That
just mentioned.
She, different friend of mine who unfortunately is still going through the process. And thank God he’s respectful enough to not use in front of me.
And it’s been different in the past. And he’s gone through his ups and downs through his using journey. And,but there’s part of, there’s things that I do to Mitigate that exposure still just because I don’t like it. I don’t like to have to see that, you know So I instead of going and spending time at his apartment with it, and things there It’s let’s go to dinner.
I’ll take you to dinner
[00:14:12] Brenda: right.
[00:14:13] Enzo Narciso: and so bringing him out of that environment and bringing him into a place where we’re both together in public and hang Out and can spend time And then if we want to sit and talk privately sit in the car outside before he goes in, and not Expose myself to don’t put myself in an opportunity where he can possibly bring that into the mix
[00:14:32] Brenda: Yeah, no, that’s super smart. But yeah, that just felt like a lot of growth. the other thing that we talk about often is ADHD. And I just recently had a doctor on who was talking about ADHD and how, it makes sense that kids medicate self medicate with weed because it works. for a while, they think it does.
It actually doesn’t, but it appears to work. but I thought it would be [00:15:00] cool if you could give some insight into how ADHD shows up in your life and then what you’ve done to wrangle it because you’ve done a really good job. And I know you’ve said in, you were a guest speaker for us in our community and you said, even if you had the option to go back and have it not be part of you, that you wouldn’t.
So I’m that a little bit.
[00:15:24] Enzo Narciso: Yeah, so what I was saying there was that I really do think it is a gift, honestly, and it’s the ability to focus so intently on one thing, if it’s interesting. If it’s interesting, it’s not, I, it’s a complete lack of focus. If there’s something that’s not interesting, but if there’s something that is interesting, I cannot leave it alone. And when it’s focused on healthy things, like going to the gym, or committing to a diet, or whatever, learning of something, particularly if I want to learn about a topic, I will not put it down, and I’m grateful for that. And On the other side, there’s other times, maybe I’ll just describe what ADHD is like for somebody that maybe wondering, what is my kid going through?
Imagine the wind blowing on the window of the room where you are. And then two hours later, you’re driving down the street with a burrito. And you’re on the way to somewhere else. And then you, and then, you come home two hours later after that, after getting to wherever you were and you feel, Oh my gosh, I started this paper and I can’t believe I have an hour now to finish it. [00:16:30] So little things like I can think about one thing for five seconds and then. I hear an ambulance. And so I go, Oh gosh, what if that was like somebody that I love, And then I think, gosh, I’m grateful not to be in a medical situation like that. And then I think, well, I have been in a situation that was pretty critical at one point, man.
[00:16:50] Enzo Narciso: I wonder what my mom. Was going through when she found out about that. And then the list, and then it just takes me on a full ride and gone for, and who knows where it’s going to go. so that’s the idea there. and I have a couple of little ways that I’ve dealt with it. but one thing I would say is if, I really want to discourage the negative talk about medication. Honestly, I do think medication is the right play for some people, because in, in certain situations. I’ve seen it work with kids that are just clearly such ADHD case studies, but with the right dose and the right medication, they do incredibly well, a lot of research that is shown to, that does help a lot of people. The other thing I’ll say is that there’s an immediate connection between ADHD and addiction. particularly untreated ADHD has an extremely high, Drug use correlation. So that’s just something that I think if we can solve that with medication, that’s a far [00:18:00] healthier way to do it so, I mean, I think, With the right dose, the right medication helps, but with a psychiatrist,I don’t want to say that’s not a good option. if you ask me, what are some strategies that I use? I would say that, what I do for myself is that I go and I have, I write things down like crazy. I like, I have to write things down immediately. I have to immediately use reminders in my phone. Once something gets scheduled. I have to put it in my phone immediately. And then whiteboards have saved me and recently a whiteboard just saved me with an assignment that I was doing. I got, home for the day, took a shower in no rush, it’s 11 40 p. m. And I look at my whiteboard for the day and boom, there’s an assignment due,thankfully because of pre planning I had worked a lot on the assignment ahead of time and I just had to upload it, do one last thing. But whiteboards have saved me a ton of headache. So I have two in my room I have one on one wall and I have one on the other wall so that’s the thing and then also using the environment So if I know I need to do laundryI will go and take my laundry basket and I will put it in front of my door so I can’t leave The room without seeing my laundry.
So as soon as I think oh, I should do laundry. Boom I just put the basket right there. It doesn’t mean I do it right away I just put it in my way so that I cannot miss it and then same thing once it goes in the dryer I put the laundry basket in my way in the hallway when I walk [00:19:30] by it so that I can’t possibly walk by without noticing Oh, yeah, I have something in that
[00:19:34] Brenda: Right.
[00:19:35] Enzo Narciso: something in the dryer.
So I need to go and deal with that so
[00:19:38] Brenda: Yeah. I love practical things like that. And I remember one time seeing you, I think you were still in high school, but I can’t totally remember where you were walking around with the oven mitt on your hand. I’m like, why is he walking around with an oven mitt on his hand? And you said, Oh, I put some like chicken dinos in the, And if I don’t walk around with the oven mitt on, I will forget that they’re in there.
And so when you would look down and see it, it would remind you to go check on the chicken dino. So I just think there’s, it’s good to hear. It’s really good for parents to hear practical things like that, because I think, yes, medication and yes, tutoring or whatever, but there’s just some basic stuff like that, that
I think it’s helpful to see, not that we want parents to go and Oh, you need to get a whiteboard or you need to do this, but maybe they can just start like brainstorming with their kids.
Cause I bet they can come up with that stuff if they have the opportunity.
[00:20:31] Enzo Narciso: Yeah, everybody knows they can do reminders on their phone. Everybody knows they can set alarms.but actually doing it is the part that has
saved me, anybody can know about that. One last thing I’ll say about, um, physical environment is my toothbrush. So the toothbrush, if I leave it in the bathroom, There’s such a low chance that I’m going to actually think, Oh, I need to brush my teeth and then go into the bathroom and brush my teeth. So I put my toothbrush on my counter [00:21:00] right by my door when I leave. so if I’m on the way to the door, there’s no way. That I’m not going to see the toothbrush. And I,
the last couple of times we’ve gone to the dentist, they’ve been thrilled with my teeth. So I’m, I guess that’s a good sign. So it’s working out great, and it’s just little things like that, that are like cool , my environment’s not set up the way. That works for me and I don’t have a whiteboard. I can just, there are things that are going to slip and I’m not going to remember them. I will be doing something else fun that I enjoy that my ADHD has locked myself in on. Oh
[00:21:34] Brenda: stock market. So that’s one of the, that’s one of the good things is when you, and we talk about this all the time in the community with our moms is they always say, if my kid is so brilliant and so can focus so much that if they can figure out a way to turn this energy into something positive and legal. they’ll be incredibly successful. And I’ve seen you do that, which is so fun to see you really focus on finance and the stock market and go deep. And then also for like golf. So anyway, that’s super cool. we were talking, I think it was today about Boundaries and you work with adolescent boys who are struggling and try and find their way.
And I would say boundaries and this desire to control people’s lives are two of the biggest things that we as parents really struggle with. [00:22:30] And so we had started talking today about how important it is to set boundaries and you see this every day in your work. So I thought I’d just What does that look like for you guys?
When could you got eight or ten adolescent boys all in the same house. that’s got to just be a little bit of chaos, but talk about boundaries.
[00:22:49] Enzo Narciso: Yeah, sometimes it’s 14 or 15, you know, so yeah, so one of them is going to break the boundary every day. There’s no question about that.
[00:22:58] Brenda: Hey there, are you feeling stuck in a cycle of drama and arguments with your child? Worried sick about their substance use? I have been there and I want you to know there’s hope. This podcast is just one piece of the curated and trustworthy resources and solutions we offer for parents. We recognize you need emotional support and a solid plan for moving forward, making positive change in your family.
So, in addition to connecting with other parents, we also teach you practical skills and strategies to dial down the drama and diffuse those heated moments. We step you through the evidence based craft approach, a game changer that can help you invite your child to accept help without resorting to tough love or waiting for rock bottom.
We have so much more than the podcast waiting for you. Head over to Hopestreamcommunity. org to tap into all of our resources and become part of the Hopestream family in our private online community. Remember, you’re [00:24:00] not alone in this. We’re doing it together. Now let’s get back to the conversation.
boundaries are funny because it’s not, it’s something that once it is in place, it is super easy to manage. And if you have a process for holding a boundary, like for me, for example, when there’s a kid who’s broken a rule or done something that he shouldn’t have done, I have a playbook that I go into this situation with and it’s, it works almost every time,
[00:24:28] Enzo Narciso: the playbook is this. So you don’t want to knee jerk reaction when you have a kid that breaks a boundary. That’s the first thing you don’t want to. Instantly break into a this is the rule and then now you’re flustered and the kid is going to go into fight or flight and it’s not going to work out the way a knee jerk reaction tends to make you feel like it will work out, so,say there’s a kid who’s been bullying somebody else, right? And there’s a consequence for it that I’ve taken a minute to collect myself before I address the situation to make sure that I’m not flustered. I’m not the one that’s going to be triggering his fight or flight response to the best of my ability. And then once I’ve thought through, okay, this is what the consequences, this is what we’re going to tell the kid, I’ll bring them in.
And I will be in a lower physical environment. Likeif the kid walks in and he’s standing, I will sit down. Okay. If the kid sits down, and I’m sitting down, I will sit on a basketball lower down. Alright, if the kid is sitting on the [00:25:30] ground, I’m gonna lay down and lay back because, it psychologically puts the kid. In a more comfortable position when you’re lower. I don’t know what the science behind it is, but it seems to work. And
[00:25:40] Enzo Narciso: so that’s the first thing I will. And it’s the little hacks work out. next thing is, don’t want to trigger the kids fight or flight response when I’m holding a boundary So that really comes down to tonality. And your body language. So tonality is a little bit it’s hard to explain how did the tonality would work, but I’m never going to say something like this. Like you were bullying this kid. And so now you’re going to be on a consequence. Right. That is not the way that I want to do it it’d be much, much more effective to go because of your bullying to the other kid today, you’re going to be on a consequence. Also, I go straight to it. That way is a lot less room for detours and surprises. And we’re not, catching the kid from left field.
[00:26:30] Brenda: You had talked about the importance of consistency versus saying here’s going to be like either here’s the boundary, here’s the consequence and then not enforcing it.
[00:26:44] Enzo Narciso: Yeah. That’s absolutely critical. The worst thing that could happen is For your kid to break the boundary and the kid knows that you saw, but you didn’t hold him to the standard that you said you were going to, that is going to shatter the credibility. So it’s a, [00:27:00] So it has to come and it has to come repeatedly every time and that’s The most critical thing so they can count on you to hold that boundary
the downside here is that well, so it feels oh my gosh every time I have to you know every time he comes home smelling like weed.
I need to address like Okay, I mean, I would ask the audience Who do you think that the kid is going to come to? When there’s been a boundary broken against the kid’s boundary has been broken say His mp3 player has been taken. Okay. The kid is not going to go to the staff member who is very loosey goosey, wishy washy with the rule. They’re going to come to me or somebody that is repeatedly holding the boundaries because they can count on me to solve the issue. So it’s a two way street. It’s the thing where it’s like I’m consistently going to hold these boundaries because I hold you to the same standard every time. But if something happens to you, you can trust that I’m going to hold the other person who slighted you to the same standard. And so.
it’s a two way street and it’s so much more comfortable to know that there’s an adult figure in your life that’s going to hold you accountable, but that’s also there to help you if something’s happened to you. Because I see it happen all the time. What happens is they don’t go to the staff who’s wishy washy, loosey goosey on all the rules.
They go to the staff who they know is going to
be consistent with it because they know that I’m going to either find the MP3, we’re going to figure out who took it right now, or soon it’s going to be found and there’s going to be a consequence for stealing. So that’s the upside of holding
these boundaries and holding [00:28:30] the kids accountable on a consistent basis.
[00:28:32] Brenda: Yeah, totally. I can see that. Just the dependability and it’s hard for parents because they say, Oh, I’m just, I’m exhausted. it’s just ongoing and it’s, I’m so tired of doing this, but so it’s good to hear that consistency, even if it feels like you’ve done it too many times.
10 times this week or whatever it is that it’s really important and that you’re actually, it feels counterintuitive, but you’re actually building trust. And I think the other thing that it shows is you’re modeling the behavior that you want your child to do. So if you’re consistent in your actions and you do what you say, you’re going to do, the same behavior that you would like to see from your child.
And the other thing is, and I know that this is true cause I talked to all the moms about it is you guys are so smart and so brilliant You wouldn’t be home on time and I would text you and you would have me so spun up like, it’s only 1203 and it’s officially 1205. But then if it’s, but then we had to stop and get gas and then and there was like this long story. Associated with why you were late and I would get so caught up in the story that I would forget to stand back and say, interesting story. You were supposed to be home at midnight. It’s so hard.
[00:29:51] Enzo Narciso: And so that’s another thing. going into these conversations where you’re addressing a boundary that’s been broken or some kind of behavior that’s unacceptable,the [00:30:00] Main strategy that the kids use, okay, is that they will throw out a, whoa, hold on, whoa, there’s this kind of thing that happened.
Oh, and also, and so it’s if they’re to be able to sit in, this is part of my process ahead of time when I have these conversations with the kids, I’m going to go ahead in my head and I’m going to say, okay, we’re focused in this conversation that I’m about to have is focused on this boundary being broken. And this is the consequence. Okay. I’m not concerned about whether the other kid the other day did this thing and it will for him and the other staff said and then so when these kind of things start flying and they’re gonna fly because they This is the smart thing for the kid to do is to try and throw you off To identify oh, hey this that’s a distractor right there Like he just threw out a curveball that is trying to distract me into my favorite phrase For when that happens is I understand that or that’s a separate conversation.
those two things that I understand that is good because it acknowledges that something that they’ve made a comment about something.
[00:31:02] Brenda: You’re validating them.
[00:31:03] Enzo Narciso: Yeah, I understand that. That’s okay. but I’m not perfectly agreeing at the same time. I say, I understand that. The thing is that we’re talking about this topic right here. So I just need you to acknowledge that. And if you want to tell me about something else afterward, okay. oh, it’s, oh, my sister did this the other night, and da, and okay, I understand that. Alright, this is a separate conversation.
knowing Those kind of things ahead of time and having a plan ahead of time like okay This is the [00:31:30] conversation It’s likely that they’re going to try and deflect or distract or whatever the smart thing for the kid to do would be It’s likely that they’re going to do that and we’re going to stay on track so those are things that have been ingrained into my head after having a hundred thousand of these conversations that you know, my checklist is very brief.
[00:31:46] Enzo Narciso: It’s okay. This is the consequence. This is the boundary You There’s probably going to be some deflections if those come we’re going to revert back to okay I understand that right or that’s a separate discussion or that’s a separate issue And then we’re going to get back on track and now we’re really rolling towards where we need to go in the conversation.
Right,
[00:32:21] Brenda: just, proceed calmly is really smart.
And like you said, you’ve had, Thousands of these conversations because you are working, you’ve worked for several years with adolescent boys, which I still, you know, I sometimes think about that and it just still boggles my mind that you’re
working with the kids like you were, years ago and so cool.
And then you also do mentoring with adolescent boys. They’ve left treatment and they’re trying to, they’re in that sort of wobbly stage. What do you like about that? you’ve already worked with the kids, like they’re in treatment.
And then, what is it about mentoring younger guys once they’re [00:33:00] out and they’re
In that really fragile phase that you were in so many times and you couldn’t, keep it together.
[00:33:07] Enzo Narciso: Yeah, so it goes back to the first Reason why I even like working with kids in general and the One of the best things is when a kid goes home and they text me or they call me and they tell me Oh, dude, I did this thing and it actually worked in my in the and i’m like, okaythank you for telling me that because that’s like a that’s an extra benefit That comes with the job because I know that i’ve told the kid maybe try this And then they actually listened and they tried it and then they were so excited with the result That they came and they told me and sothat’s a reward that’s different than money that’s different than a good job from your boss or whatever the situation may be so that’s the main thing that I love about when they’re working in the job at all And so actually doing that with a kid and actually having him on a regular basis consistently You Like telling them like this is what I would do in this situation or this is how it was worked for me before and maybe try that and then to see them play it out and to see the result of Oh, yeah, I did get into the band then I’m like, okay, dude Yeah, just run with it So just don’t you know, like that is such an exciting thing for me because I get to see the process I get to see the result too.
So It’s nice. I love it when the kids hit me up later a year later and they message me Oh, dude, I did this thing and it actually worked [00:34:30] out for me And so that’s phenomenal but to actually go through that process with them is something that I love to do
[00:34:35] Brenda: That’s so cool. I think it’s so important because you have the street cred to be able to say, Hey, why don’t you try this? Whereas I feel as mom, like I would try to do that. And it just didn’t fly because I don’t understand your world, right? I just feel like it’s so important for them to have somebody that they can look to and say, okay, Enzo was in the trenches too.
Like he’s been through this. He has struggled with being addicted to these substances or like we were talking about today, even being addicted to a lifestyle that you loved. And it met so many of your needs and it was so dangerous, but I think for them to have somebody. Who checks that box and is now on the other side of that is just so important.
Yeah. walking process, a live action. This is what happened with my boss. They told me this. Okay. And then just somebody to bounce that off and as somebody who’s been a manager before, or been in a situation with a girlfriend is, a little bit different from the 50 minute once every other week kind of thing about what’s going on inside your head. It’s more like what are the actual steps working and going through that process?
[00:35:49] Brenda: And both are hugely valuable. Yeah.
[00:35:52] Enzo Narciso: Like, how do you do it? The kids know that they should work hard. The kids know that they should be respectful to their mom and dad, [00:36:00] but how,
how do you work, how do you get ahead at your job?how do you reach out to somebody who might be able to promote your band? How do you do, that’s,
those are the kinds of things that kind of go under the rug.
[00:36:11] Brenda: That’s super cool. I know I need to let you go, but I would just love to hear from you. Like it’s coming up on eight years. It’ll be eight years in the spring since, you basically did die from an overdose, although they can’t figure out how you managed to come back to life and all of the stuff that came with that, I think a lot of people don’t.
Realize the physical rehabilitation that you had to go through, let alone, figuring out your relationship with substances and the lifestyle that you were in, but just the physical rehab of being on the stroke unit, having to relearn how to tie your shoes and tell time and all of that.
Like what’s kept you from sliding back into some of those old. Patterns those old habits,
[00:36:59] Enzo Narciso: it’s been a couple of things. I think the main thing is it was such a consequential event to learn to walk again. And most people learn to walk once when they’re about maybe two ish. I’ve learned to walk once when I was about two ish maybe around there and then when I was 19. So that was that’s an experience that you do not Just forget about and , sometimes i’ll be I’ll feel maybe i’m too self critical, but sometimes i’ll be like, ah, I feel you know Like i’m being too complacent and i’ll look at my phone and see the pictures [00:37:30] from the hospital with the ventilator on life support And I just think man I would have to be an idiot I would have to be an idiot and maybe, God forbid one day I’m, maybe I am an idiot and it happens, but, God willing, I’ll be able to continue living a healthy lifestyle and I just really love it.
I really love living a healthy lifestyle and having good relationships with my family and being able to work out. My brother and I just got back, we went to the gym. worked out legs. And I remember not being able to walk and learning to walk with a walker, like an old man at the age of 19. So that kind of an experience is just something that you, it was what I needed, honestly, it was what I needed to go through.
And, and thank God I made it through.
[00:38:14] Brenda: Right. Well, I will second that for sure. thank you. these are important questions that parents want to hear from people like you on, and really get a little peek inside, like under the hood of what’s going on in your brain. So thanks for coming and visiting and joining me again on the podcast.
[00:38:34] Enzo Narciso: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:38:36] Brenda: Okay, my friend, that is a wrap for today. Don’t forget to download the new ebook, Worried Sick. It’s totally free and it will shed so much light on positive tools and strategies you can use right now to start creating those positive conditions for change in your home and in your relationships. It is at hopestreamcommunity.
org forward slash [00:39:00] worried. And guess what? We have moved the entire podcast to our website at HopeStreamCommunity. org. So now when you want the show notes or resources, or if you want to download a transcript, just go to HopeStreamCommunity. org and click on podcast and you will find it all there. You can search by keyword, episode number, guest name, and we have created playlists for you.
Makes it much easier to find episodes grouped by topic. So we’re really excited to have that done and hope you like. The podcast’s new home. Please be extraordinarily good to yourself today. Take a deep breath. You’ve got this and you are going to be okay. You’re not doing it alone. I will meet you right back here next week.
