Coaching Episode: Drawing the Line with Grace – Confident Boundaries and Open Communication, with Jane

Hopestream for parenting kids through drug use and addiction
Hopestream for parenting kids through drug use and addiction
Coaching Episode: Drawing the Line with Grace - Confident Boundaries and Open Communication, with Jane
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ABOUT THE EPISODE:

Jane isn’t exactly sure at what age her older son began using substances regularly, but the degree of misuse seemed to come in waves. He stayed in therapy until he left for college – which is just when her younger son began having the same issues. He cycled through four high schools, attended a wilderness program, and eventually enrolled in the therapeutic boarding school where he is today.

Jane’s family’s relationship is pretty good, thanks to the many tools she’s been learning and practicing in The Stream. Her sons are honest with her, they respect each other, and Jane’s husband actively participates in their recovery process. But after both sons were home for a holiday visit, Jane realized she needed to address a boundary violation that occurred during their stay. We spoke for this episode the day her son was coming home, and the conversation could potentially happen – but should it?

Jane needed to talk through how she might approach this difficult conversation and wanted to consider whether acknowledging the boundary violation would throw her family’s relative calm into chaos. We also discuss strategies she can use to step outside the anxiety of imagining worst-case scenarios and getting sucked into future trips. In this coaching episode, Jane and I talk through three specific tools to address issues that so many parents find themselves confronting with a child who struggles with substance misuse.

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Brenda:
 0:46You’re listening to Hope Stream. If you’re parenting a young person who misuses substances, is in a treatment program or finding their way to recovery, you’re in the right place. This is your private space to learn from experts and gain encouragement and support from me, Brenda Zane, your host and follow mom to a child who struggled. This podcast is just one of the resources we offer for parents. So, after the episode, head over to our website at HopeStreamCommunity. org. I’m so glad you’re here. Take a deep breath, exhale, and know that you have found your people. And now let’s get into today’s show. Hello, hello. It is coaching episode week. But before I tell you a little bit about our HopeStream community member who received coaching for this episode, I wanted to let you know that I have a brand new ebook out. that you can download for free. It’s going to be especially helpful if you are in the earlier stages of navigating your child’s misuse of substances and their mental health struggles. It’ll give you a good overview of the approach that I talk about here a lot, craft or community reinforcement and family training. It’s a mouthful. Just think of it as craft. So if you’re having a hard time right now, and if what you’ve been doing isn’t working, You’re not seeing positive change in your child. Go ahead and download the ebook. It is just six chapters. It’s not a lot because I know you’ve got a lot going on. But it will get you on your way to feeling better and for having a plan of how you can move forward in your family. So that is free to download at hopestreamcommunity. org forward slash worried. Okay. You are going to love today’s coaching episode because Jane and I get into a pretty specific situation that she is facing with her sons. One who is in college and using weed a lot. And one who was at the time that we spoke home from treatment for the holidays. It’s a lot to juggle, right? Jane is trying to figure out various boundaries and how to hold them, how to communicate them. And she’s debating how to talk with her older son about something that took place and she doesn’t want it to blow up. She is also recognizing the incredible work that her younger son is doing in treatment. It is a lot, and it is so generous of our members who grant us access to their private coaching sessions so you can pick up new ideas and information as you listen. And just a reminder, we don’t use real names to protect the privacy of our members and their kids. I think it’s important to mention that because one of our core values at HopeStream is confidentiality. It’s why our online community for parents is 100 percent disconnected from places like Facebook. Basically it exists on its own private digital Island. So with that, let’s jump in to the conversation with Jane as she sorts out what to do with these two boys of hers. Here we go. Welcome Jane. I’m so glad to have you here. I love doing coaching episodes with people that I’ve met in person. I don’t know. It just feels different because I know you a little bit. So it’s really fun to have you here and thanks for putting your coaching episode out there for others to learn from. It’s such a gift to them. So welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. I know we’ve tried this a couple of times. I always believe it works out when it’s supposed to work out. So you’ve listened to other coaching episodes. So you kind of know how things go. We’re going to eventually get to some action things and stuff like that, but it’s helpful to get a grounding in where you are today. So why don’t you just bring us up to speed on kind of where you are today as a family and what. Uh, prompted you to want to do a coaching call now?
Jane:
 5:15I have two boys they’re ages 21 and 16. We’ve been dealing with substance misuse in one way or another for about seven years in our house. It started with my 21 year old. And probably when he was about 14 though I think like a lot of parents, I didn’t really know when it started or the degree of his use. And at times it seemed like it would ebb and flow, things would go really well. And then three months later. It seemed like the bottom would fall out and at one point, my husband and I had actually made the decision to have him transported to a, a treatment center, which actually fell through because something happened with the transport. And so it never happened. And we continue to just kind of plug along and get therapy for him, therapy for our family. And he did okay. He graduated from high school, he went off to college and it seemed like things were going pretty well. And I think it was helpful in some ways for him to be off at college on the other side of the country because I couldn’t see exactly what was going on. But right about the time he moved away, my younger son went off the rails. And started the same stuff and it was quite a journey. He had been in four different high schools was expelled or kicked out of two of them, suspended from one, went to a boarding school. That’s one of the schools he was asked to leave. And that’s when we found wilderness which he did. All of last summer and then went directly from wilderness to a therapeutic boarding school, which is where he is right now. It’s been 7 months of really good treatment for him and he’s doing really well. The boys, both of both boys and my husband and I were home for the very first time in 8 months over the holidays. And it was wonderful. I was excited. I was nervous. I had some time to prepare. And I think one of the things that made me the most nervous was. I didn’t really know where my older son was in his process because he’s been living on the other side of the country. And I knew my younger son was doing really well, but also still in a very vulnerable position. So I was lucky enough to have my older son home for a couple of days before the younger one came home. And we had a really open and honest conversation about his use. And he told me that he has really been trying to cut down and I, I appreciate so much how I believe he was very honest with me and I told him that and I was also really disappointed and saddened by the information that he gave me, which was that he still uses daily. I don’t think he’s using all day long. Like I think he may have been at one point. But he does use at least every single night to go to sleep. And then, and that’s THC, he’s using nicotine as well, and drinking. And he is also currently not driving because he received, uh, a DUI while he was at school. So it’s been a full year that he’s been without a license. My boys are really close. I think that they’re good friends and they’ve always gotten along very well. And they’ve been speaking every week on the phone. My, my younger son who’s in the residential or the therapeutic boarding school gets to call us once a week for just a social call. And because his brother’s way at school, that call is separate from the one that I have with my husband and I. So I know they’ve been open with each other about use and recovery. And I think my younger son has inspired my older son to, to make changes. And I know my older son really respects and admires and supports my younger son for doing what he’s doing. So when he told me that he was using daily, my plan for the conversation was to set the boundary that. I didn’t want to have any substances in our home at all but particularly at this very vulnerable, vulnerable time for my son, the younger one. I also, with the information he gave me thought, how is that even possible? Like if he’s using every single day, is it really realistic or possible for him to not use before he goes to bed? And so I just said to him, you know, do you have any, do you have any knowing what my boundary is? Do you have any suggestions on like, how will we make this look when your brother comes home? And he didn’t at the moment, but we both kind of separated and thought about it and circled back around together. And so we settled on something that I think felt the best that it possibly could. And when I say it out loud, it sounds kind of crazy to me. And it was that we’ve had this med bag for years that we would put my son, the younger son’s Adderall in that was a locked med bag. And so we decided to put. Have him put his stuff in that locked med bag that was hidden outside in our yard. And the key was in his bedroom and the deal was that he could use it, but he needed to go away from our home. So he couldn’t like just hang out in the backyard and use, but he could go outside, get it and then like walk around the block or something. And he was very pleasant. He was very agreeable with this plan. I felt like, I felt like he was on board. Fast forward, we had a great vacation together, and then my older son left several days ago to go on a ski trip on his way back to school. And we had a therapy call, a family therapy call with my younger son. And his therapist and the therapist asked my younger son, you know, how was your break? How was your family visit at home for the holidays? And was there anything hard that happened? And he said, yeah, there was one thing. One night I went down to my brother’s room, we were hanging out and I looked under his nightstand and his THC charging thing was down there under the nightstand. My younger son didn’t tell me, he had, he thought about it, he made the decision not to tell me while he was home because he thought that I would probably freak out, because that’s my pattern, that’s what I’ve done in the past, and he didn’t use it. And so, on a very positive note, he thought about it, he, uh, Fast forwarded, he said, you know, I’ve, I’ve seen this movie, movie before. I know how it ends. It’s not good. So I’m not going to do it, but I’m also not going to tell my mom because she’s going to freak out. Right. So, uh, but he did tell us on that, that therapy call. So where I am right now is, uh, My older son is away from our house, but returning late tonight with his three college buddies who are going to hang out and play or stay at our house for a couple of nights and, and ski. And then they will slowly head back to school on, on the other side of the country. So my thought is that, you know, I’d like to address this with him at some point. I don’t really feel like there’s a huge urgency to do it. Certainly. Not while his friends are here. I’d like to be able to do it when we can be alone and in person, but I, I don’t know that that’s going to be possible. So it might be a phone call type of situation, I guess, uh, figuring out what I, where I, where do I go with this from here and then moving forward. Okay. Can
Brenda:
 13:26I just give you a gold star for communication with him in talking about this. I mean, that’s huge that you were able to have the conversation about what your boundary is, to go away, to think about it, to come up with a plan together. It does not sound crazy to me what you came up with. It sounds like something that worked At that time for both of you, and it sounds like a mom, and I don’t know what your husband’s position on this was, but that that isn’t saying or trying to control a person that she can’t control. Right? So huge props for that. I think that is massive. Thank you. And especially because you’re thinking. Yeah. About the impact on your other son, right? And so, and I’m sure he was too. That’s the thing. He was. He really was. Yeah. So did it go flawlessly? But man, you guys did a ton of great work. In setting that up. Thank you. Have you thought about that?
Jane:
 14:41This makes me teary. Thank you. I do know on one hand that it could have gone a lot worse and yeah, it could have gone better, but boy, it could have gotten a lot worse. And, and we have new skills that we didn’t have before. My husband was on the same page. He was. And so I’m sure that’s helpful to both boys. But particularly the one we made the, the plan with that he knew we were on the same page.
Brenda:
 15:19And just to have not only the actual plan. So that’s, It’s great, but it’s what it takes to have the conversations to have that plan, which means as a family, you have really dialed in on some communication skills that I know you’ve worked hard at and that’s the payoff, right? Is that you can come up with a plan like that versus here’s the alternative. Nobody wants to talk about it. Oh my gosh, he’s coming home. What is he going to have with them? What’s good? Right. And that, and then your entire vacation would have been filled with panic and anxiety. And that’s going to rub off on your boys. And they’re going to be like, why is mom so freaking out? You know what I mean? Like, yeah. So you, Yeah. So I think sometimes we underestimate what that kind of communication can do. It’s not just so that you can come up with a plan. It’s because it lets everybody know where we are, what is the plan? What is safe? What is not? How can we lower it, our anxiety around tiptoeing otherwise, right? You would have been tiptoeing around on eggshells. Like what’s going to happen, what’s going to happen. So yeah, just huge, huge props for that. And so this was one incident, right? This was a recent incident that obviously kind of like reopens a wound. Yes. Like it’s like, it’s like that, that, you know, sandpaper again, like, Oh my gosh, here, you know, this is, but if you roll that up a few levels. So if you were to kind of get in a helicopter and like, and go up, what is it about this incident that really concerns you?
Jane:
 17:18I think the concern I have is older son’s going to have something in the house. Younger son’s going to, to get into it, whether he finds it and is tempted or is having a weak moment and go searching for it and is able to find it. It uses it, you know, right now I feel like with him at residential treatment center, I keep saying residential treatment center, it’s therapeutic boarding school. It’s this really safe environment for him and very helpful for us. So we’re sick, worst case scenario, he goes back, he pays the consequences there by, you know, losing privileges and, and things like that. But then I think that my bigger concern is like, what happens when he’s home? And, and that happens and are we gonna, my head goes to the worst possible place, which is he’s going to go back to using whatever he found and then he’s going to add in more things and then he’s going to stop going to school and then he’s going to get kicked out of school or he’s going to not get a job or, you know, just the snowball of possibilities goes through my head. Right.
Brenda:
 18:34So he successfully didn’t use this time when he had the opportunity, but you have already, he’s already 20 and homeless and Probably like addicted to heroin, right? Yep. In your mind.
Jane:
 18:48Yep. He’s, he, he is hospitalized and Play the movie out for me. Yeah. Like he’s losing his lung and dying of cancer like my dad did who used, you know, the whole like past comes back.
Brenda:
 19:01Right. Right. So. That’s good to play that forward a little bit, because sometimes if you look at it from that perspective, you can see how crazy that is, right? Like, yeah, I can make up a lot of scenarios about what’s going to happen. But if we, and we spend a lot of time in this in the stream, where I know you’re very active, of staying in the moment, and not Allowing ourselves that we don’t need to borrow tomorrow’s trouble. Yeah, we don’t even know if there is going to be trouble But let’s not borrow it before we need to write. So I’d be curious what the conversation was like with his Therapist around this, because I think a couple of things, it’s awesome that he had the opportunity and he didn’t use that shows huge progress, I’m sure from where he was. And it also must make him feel pretty awesome.
Jane:
 20:00Yeah. Yeah. It’s fun hearing his therapist talk to him now on their phone calls. That’s what we have. It’s just a phone call, so we don’t. And there’s been a huge shift in the way that he talks to my son and the words that he uses with him and just so positive. And so it sounds like he feels like my son’s doing a really good job and he’s confident in his abilities and yeah, he’s got more work to do, but he’s like, bro, you, you’re doing great. And that’s not the way the conversations were when he first got there.
Brenda:
 20:54Hi, I’m taking a quick break to let you know some exciting news. There are now two private online communities for supporting you through this experience with your child or children, the stream community for those who identify as moms and the woods for guys who identify as dads. Of course, this includes step parents and anyone who is caring for a young person who struggles with substance use and mental health. The stream and the woods exists completely outside of all social media. So you never have to worry about confidentiality and they’re also ad free. So when you’re there, you’ll be able to focus on learning the latest evidence based approaches to helping people change their relationship with drugs and alcohol. In both communities, we have a positive focus without triggering content or conversations, and we help you learn to be an active participant in helping your child move towards healthier choices. Thanks. You’ll also experience the relief of just being able to be real, connect with other parents who know fully what you’re going through and have battle tested mentors alongside. You can check out both the stream and the woods for free before committing. So there’s no risk. Go to hope stream community. org to get all the details and become a member. Okay. Let’s get back to the show. What I hear consistently from people in recovery is that. The skills and the mantras and the tools and the therapies that they’ve been Soaking in over all this time, you know, he’s been in treatment for eight months, I think you said. Yeah. He’s using those. Yeah. And to really highlight to him, dude, you’re using your skills. It’s working. And what do you think’s going to happen when you come home and you go back to school? And you’re faced with a similar situation, what do you think is going to be the most useful for you at that time? So that it becomes just more of a part of a conversation. It’s not like, well, you can’t go to that party because there’s going to be weed there. It’s really pulling out, like what made you successful in that moment? And you said, you know, he kind of played the movie forward, like, Oh yeah, been there, done that. Don’t want to do that again. Right. Right. So, in a way, it could be a really great tool for you to use in the future.
Jane:
 23:31I agree. I love that. I, you know, on the phone call when I learned about it, I, I definitely, well, I was a little shocked I think. So I probably didn’t give him as much kudos as he deserved. And I, I know he knows that we are happy that he didn’t use but I love the idea of when he calls me tomorrow or the next day that. I can bring it up and again, and just have this conversation again with him about how that was so cool. And, you know, I guess it was kind of a test and yeah, you did pass with flying colors and and, and asking him about the skills that he used. I, I like. That idea.
Brenda:
 24:18Yeah. Cause he’s, he’s doing a lot of work, you know, going through wilderness, being in a therapeutic boarding school. There’s a lot of work that they do. Right. And so for him to have some of that self efficacy to see. Oh yeah, I did that. And you know, he’s going to be in a, it’s not like we could bubble wrap him and stick him in a container and never have him encounter THC again in his life. Right? So you know, that’s going to happen. He knows that’s going to happen. So what a great way just to start building on those skills and letting him see Oh, you got this. Yeah. You got this. And if you don’t, we’re going to figure it out. Mom isn’t going to freak out and lose it and fall apart. Mom’s going to say, wow, what a bummer. Like what, what do you think you did the first time that maybe you didn’t kind of pull into practice the second time, right? It’s not the end of the world. He’s 16, right? So he’s so young, but he’s probably starting to see, hmm, that using Drugs thing hasn’t really gotten me where I want to be. I’m sure he’s in a wonderful program, but it’s probably not where he would choose to be. He had the choice. Yeah. He’d probably rather be in his high school with his friends. So he’s starting to see those trade offs. And those are the things that he, you could start to kind of try to pull out of him like, man, you have such a huge runway right now, dude, like the world is your oyster right now because you’re sober, you’re clear headed, you’re on the right path, you’re making great decisions. Like, what do you want to do? Kind of get him dreaming and thinking about that, because if that’s where the conversations are headed versus, well, you can’t do this and you can’t do that, and I’m terrified when you come home, you’re probably going to use again, that doesn’t feel good.
Jane:
 26:30Yeah.
Brenda:
 26:30Because
Jane:
 26:31before he went to treatment, yeah, he doesn’t or hasn’t been talking about what he wants. And wasn’t even in a place to think about that. Yeah. Yeah. And I think he was actually in such a low place, too, that he, he, He was convinced he wasn’t even going to have a very long life that he’s, and, and he might still have a little bit of that going on. But that’s not what I see anymore. I definitely see that all possibilities are open to him. And, and I just love the way that you say that, like, dude, everything is going well. Now you’re doing great. Like, wow. You could do anything. What do you want to do? Just kind of the way you say it, I think is helpful. I have, I think when I talk to him, typically it’s more of a peppering him with questions, which probably feels like, you know, even if I’m meaning well, like, Hey, what do you want to do when you’re done with residential? Do you want to, where do you think you want to go? Do you want to get a job? Where do you want to get a job? It probably sounds. Right. More, more, uh, more mom demands and not, not like, Hey, let’s dream for a second. What sounds wonderful to you? Yeah.
Brenda:
 27:48What lights you up? And for him now, he’s probably light years ahead of his friends, which is another challenge that they always face when they come back because they’ve moved from A to M and their friends are still on C. The work he’s doing now at 16 is setting him up for just incredible success. Yeah. And that’s what you can focus on with him. What feels a little bit more urgent in the moment, the conversation with your older son. About the boundary and that, or getting some action items for you to get you into a good place. Which one of those feels more weighty to you? Probably the boundary situation with my son. Yeah. So he’s coming home tonight. Yeah. He’s going to have some buddies with him.
Jane:
 28:44Yeah.
Brenda:
 28:45He doesn’t know that you know. Is that
Jane:
 28:48I think that’s correct? Yeah, it’s possible. He knows because my husband was with him when we had the therapy call. And so perhaps my husband brought it up with him, but I kind of doubt it. We haven’t discussed it yet. So, yeah, right.
Brenda:
 29:08Right. So it’s kind of looming in your mind, but possibly not looming in your son’s in your ideal. Like, do you think you can enjoy the next few days with him there with his friends if you don’t address it? Yes. Do you feel like, you know, we need to, we just need to clear the air so that the next few days can go like, where, where do you stand in there?
Jane:
 29:30I feel like I can enjoy the next couple of days,
Brenda:
 29:33Without addressing it right away. I always like to make sure that you feel respected and you know, you did set a boundary instead of making it kind of a big thing. About, well, your brother could have relapsed and what about just reconfirming, even though your brother’s not, you know, like, Hey, we didn’t really cover all of the various scenarios that this could have entailed, but now you’re home, your brother’s gone. I just want to make sure and make sure that we’re clear in case I wasn’t clear before. There are no substances in the house, even though your brother’s not here and leave it at that. Just want to make sure. Okay. I got to run. I got to go. I got to get to work or whatever. So it’s not a sit down. We’re having this conversation. Oh my gosh. It’s something that I think with boundaries, I think you’ve done our boundaries workshop. They’re not just for him. If I came to your house and I was like, Hey, Jane, can I come stay at your house for a few days? And then. I have my THC thingamajigger plugged in to the USB drive in the beautiful guest room that you set up for me. You would be like, uh, no. I know that would be a very funny scenario.
Jane:
 30:56I laugh because his room was all beautifully set up for him.
Brenda:
 31:00Of course it was. And you had his favorite food in the refrigerator. I know. I know your type, right? So it wouldn’t be cool with me. It wouldn’t be cool with anybody. Yeah. And I think that’s also good to reiterate to him to, to be like, Hey buddy, this isn’t just you. I’m not, we’re not singling you out. Like you can’t have any substances in the house. Nobody can. So just in case it wasn’t clear just want to reiterate might not have mentioned the no brother in the house thing And then you’re out, right?
Jane:
 31:37I think I can do that and then leave it alone I guess my my question is then at some point do I bring up that I found it and that he didn’t live up to the end of the bargain or Yeah, great. Let it go because Cause, cause I know I can set a boundary and that doesn’t necessarily mean that somebody is going to, to follow it.
Brenda:
 31:59Correct. However, you also get to decide what happens. And remember we talk about the fence, right? If somebody doesn’t want to respect your boundary, then this, the fence stays closed. So I think what you could do is you could say when he comes home, Hey, quick, really quick. Let me grab you in the kitchen real quick. Just want to make sure I reiterate this and next week or sometime, I’d love to just chat for a couple of minutes about how things didn’t quite go as planned when you were here because totally get it. If you want to have your THC, that just means you’re going to need to find somewhere else to stay. Totally cool. I mean, it’s not, but in our house it’s, it just can’t happen for me, for your dad, for your brother. So if, if that doesn’t work for you. then you’ll just, you know, you’ll stay somewhere else. You can come over for dinner, whatever celebrations, but you’re just not gonna be able to stay here. Cause it’s just, it’s not working out. So it’s not this like head on, you know, you broke my boundary and it’s kind of what you would say to me, right? Like if I came back again and you’re like, Oh crap, she’s coming back. She’s probably gonna have her stuff. You’d just be like, Brenda, you know, you’re probably It would really work better for me if you stayed at a hotel and we’ll get together and we’ll do our stuff, but we just, we don’t keep drugs in our house. And so if that’s how you roll, then that’s how you roll, but not in my
Jane:
 33:35house. It’s interesting because when you say that, I think to myself, honestly, if a stranger or guest were to come and do that, I would want to tell them, Hey, this isn’t working out. We don’t do this. It’d be better if you stay in a hotel. And I think that what I would be more likely to do, honestly, is gut it out and soldier through it. And then just next time, you know, I, I, I’m not great at advocating for myself, sticking to my boundary. it. I would probably in my mind say it’s only for a night. It’s only for a night.
Brenda:
 34:15However, if it’s going to jeopardize your younger son’s recovery, would you feel, would you do the same thing?
Jane:
 34:22No.
Brenda:
 34:24I just feel like it’s a really good. opportunity for you to practice. And we talk a lot about practice too. So practicing that conversation, just what we kind of like role played, role play that with your husband, with your neighbor, with your sister, whoever, because it doesn’t come naturally. Especially if you’re not used to kind of standing up for yourself and being assertive in that way. And you can be so sweetly assertive as well, especially with your own son. This is really hard for me. I’m not used to doing this. And he knows that, right? Cause you’re his mom. He’s seen you for 21 years. Yeah. So yeah. Doing a little bit of practice and then just Being really honest, it just isn’t going to work out. I’m not willing to knowingly put your brother’s recovery at risk right now or at any point or might, right? If you are in recovery, like it just doesn’t work.
Jane:
 35:25I think that will be really hard for me getting to that point where I can say, don’t, you know, you can’t, you can’t stay here. If I can’t. That’s what you need to do. Then you can’t stay here. Or you get to stay somewhere
Brenda:
 35:38else where they don’t mind. You get to stay somewhere else. When whenever we say something negatively, especially if you’re, if you have a hard time with that anyway, you can’t stay here. Sounds really bad, especially when you’re talking to your kid versus you get to stay in a place where they don’t mind if you have THC in the room. There’s a, there’s probably a lot of Airbnbs. or hotels or whatever. I don’t know where that’s totally fine. It’s just doesn’t work here. And by the way, this applies to everybody, not just to you. We’d be willing to give it one more try, having you do the med box in the yard. We get it. Like maybe you forgot, maybe you, whatever, give him the benefit of the doubt. It sounds like he’s a pretty awesome kid. So I, I highly doubt if he was like, scheming.
Jane:
 36:35No.
Brenda:
 36:35Right. Things happen. So your dad and I are like, okay, we’re willing to try it one more time. And if that doesn’t work out, then we think the next best thing is for you to find a place where it is okay for you to have THC.
Jane:
 36:48Okay.
Brenda:
 36:50Okay. I know it feels new and it feels. Uncomfortable,
Jane:
 36:56and that’s okay. It makes perfect sense. If I were listening to this conversation and it was you and somebody else, I would be like, yeah, exactly. That’s exactly what needs to happen.
Brenda:
 37:12Which is why practicing, I know it sounds kind of silly when we were talking about like communication, but just practicing having the words flow out of your mouth. Even if you, you know, get a, get one of the gals in the stream and just say, I. You really need to practice talking through this boundary with you and they’ll, you know, so many of them will do it. So getting that practice of having the words come out of your mouth in a tone of voice that feels good, that doesn’t feel, you know, confrontational will really help when it comes time to actually have the conversation. Right? Right. Okay. Well, we do have a few more minutes. So I’m going to squeeze in. Mama, how are you feeling? What do you want to unfeel?
Jane:
 38:02I would say less anxiety. Yeah, just to be able to kind of let go a little bit. What does letting go look like to you? Being able to have things just kind of bounce off me a little bit more and not absorb everything and have it build up and kind of, you you know, to just get so concerned about every little detail. Yeah.
Brenda:
 38:28And has that, have you ever had a time when you feel like you’ve done pretty good job at that? I’ve had like 30
Jane:
 38:36seconds here and there where I’ve done, but I can’t start. I mean, I do remember that feeling of like, Oh, this feels, this feels really nice to just, if to let go, I feel really good. But I don’t know how that happened or why in that situation I was able to do it. Were any of those recent enough that
Brenda:
 38:58you can recall them? No. No. So, it’s been a while. Yeah. Yeah. So, you want to be a little more Teflon than, I don’t know, cast iron? I don’t know what the, I don’t know what the comparison is there where I don’t either you can, something can happen or you can hear something or see something and it doesn’t jump inside of you and set up camp. It kind of sits outside of you and you look at it and you go, huh, okay, that’s, that’s happening. Is there anything that, is there anything that, you think could help you take a little bit more of that stance, like the observer stance versus the, Oh, it’s going to come and move in on me stance. I wonder if just
Jane:
 39:55sort of that visualization of just zooming out. You know, or being in the higher up in the stands in the stadium and watching it from a much more distant place instead of being out on the playing field. Just visualizing that might help me.
Brenda:
 40:15Do you have a favorite sports team that plays on a field that you could correlate this to?
Jane:
 40:20You know, I’m starting to really enjoy the Utah Jazz. So they’re not on a field, but you can have really close seats and you can have really far seats. So that probably would be an okay. Team to consider. Yes. So
Brenda:
 40:33you have the like VIP box in the very top where there’s beautiful flowers and there’s catering and there’s people waiting on you and That is where I want you to think about going when something hits and it would typically Move in and set up camp inside of you. Yes You’re taking it to the jazz game and you’re bringing it into your box and you’re gonna be like, look at this box. I get to sit in. Isn’t it amazing? They even serve you like coffee and food and sandwiches. And you can take it along with you to your box seats. I will sit back in my VIP chair, put my feet up and watch. That’s right. That is right. While you’re having a very healthy snack and a glass of water. Yes. Or a green smoothie or whatever you like to drink. I’ll have some coffee. Coffee. Coffee. Coffee. Coffee in the box seats with the issues. I like it. I like it too. Awesome. Well, do you feel like you have some tools to work with or some mindsets to, to start noodling on as you work through this?
Jane:
 41:51Yeah, I definitely do. I feel like I have a good tool for each of these three areas that are, are kind of what It has been weighing on me a little bit. So yeah, I feel like I have some tools in my toolbox and I’m feeling pretty good about it. Quite good about it. Awesome.
Brenda:
 42:13Well, enjoy your box seats and save some snacks for us and we’ll follow up and see how you’re doing. Okay. All right. It sounds
Jane:
 42:23really good. Thank you so much, Brenda. Okay. We’ll talk to you soon. All right. Okay. Bye. Bye. Bye.
Brenda:
 42:31Okay, my friend, that’s a wrap for today. Don’t forget to download the new ebook, Worried Sick. It’s totally free and will shed so much light on positive tools and strategies you can use right now to start creating conditions for change in your home and in your relationships. It’s at hopestreamcommunity. org forward slash worried. And as always, you can find any resources mentioned during today’s show at brendazine. com forward slash podcast. That is where every episode is listed and you can search by keywords, episode number or the guest name. Plus we’ve created lay lists for you. Which make it easier to find episodes grouped by topic and those are at brenda zane. com forward slash playlists, please be Extraordinarily good to yourself today. Take a deep breath. You have got this You are not doing it alone, and I will meet you right back here next week

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