Coaching Episode: Finding Healthy Ways to Let Go of Expectations and Nagging While Affirming Your Child’s Choices

[00:00:27] Brenda: Hello and welcome. You are listening to Hope Stream. If you parenting a teen or young adult child who’s experimenting with drugs or alcohol, or who is in active addiction in a treatment program or early recovery, You have landed in the right spot. I am Brenda Zane, your host, and mom who’s been there.
So just take a minute to exhale and know you’re in really good company and know that this is your place to soak up support and understanding and get some really great information. You can learn more about me and the work I do to serve parents like you@brendaza.com. Before I tell you about today’s episode, I just wanna let you know that we are opening an online community for those who identify as dads of kids misusing substances and struggling with mental health.
So if that sounds like you or if there’s a guy in your life like this who could use a little extra scaffolding around him right now, you can get the details and get notified of the official launch if you go to brenda zane.com/dad, I know that you are excited today because we have another coaching episode.
Today I’m talking with Carolina who is struggling with a few things as her 19 year old son moves on to be more independent and is on the home stretch of finishing high school. She has a busy, successful career in high tech. Her husband owns a restaurant and they have another son who is 17. Because of her son’s behavior issues and his substance use in the past, the family has experienced a lot of trauma, so I really appreciate Carolina’s willingness to openly share her family’s story.
I am so glad you’re here to listen, and I hope you’ll pick up on an idea or two and have something sparked in you that will help move you in a positive direction. And with that, let’s get to it. Enjoy.
Welcome Carolina to a coaching session. Um, I’m excited. We’ve, we’ve rescheduled this a few times because life is chaotic. I know, and busy and you work a ton. And so I’m just so glad that we finally get to connect. So welcome. 
[00:02:46] Karolina: Yeah, likewise. Thank you, Brandi. It’s an honor 
[00:02:49] Brenda: to be here. Oh, I, it’s an honor for me.
I love hearing what’s going on in people’s lives and just being able to be part of it is just really, it’s very special for me and it is truly is an honor. Cause I know it’s a lot what . What you all go through. So, well, let’s just start out by giving us a little bit of background on you and what your family looks like, what you, if you wanna talk about what you do, you know, where you live, just whatever you’re comfortable with.
Just to give us a little bit of context, um, to ground us before we dive into all the juicy stuff. , . 
[00:03:27] Karolina: Sure. Um, I live in San Jose, California. Okay. And, Our family is myself, my husband, and we have two boys, 19 and 17. And then we have a lovely girl for pause, 
[00:03:47] Brenda: talking. Oh, the best kind of child . Yeah. 
[00:03:50] Karolina: So, uh, that’s the second, second girl in the family besides me.
Yeah. I think that’s all about the family. Yeah. 
[00:04:00] Brenda: So, And how old are your boys? 
[00:04:03] Karolina: So my older one is 19 and my younger one is 17. 
[00:04:08] Brenda: Okay. So you are a busy mom, . Yeah. Yes. And you work full time? 
[00:04:16] Karolina: Yes, and I work full time in high tech. In 
[00:04:18] Brenda: high tech. So yeah. You’re the, you’re the Silicon Valley family? . 
[00:04:23] Karolina: Yes. My husband works full time too.
And he, um, he owns his own business. He runs a re. Oh my 
[00:04:31] Brenda: goodness. Okay. So that’s, that’s a lot. So when you, you’re obviously a member of the stream, um, what, maybe just tell us a little bit about what brought you to the stream again, as much or as little as you’re comfortable sharing. 
[00:04:47] Karolina: Sure. So my older son, 19 year old now, He is the reason I was seeking support and people that were going through the similar experiences, uh, I was going through.
So that’s what brought me, that’s what brought me to, to stream. 
[00:05:09] Brenda: Yeah. So he’s struggled with some substance use and has he been in treatment? Sort of what’s the, what’s been the, the story with that? Up until, 
[00:05:20] Karolina: Sure. So. My son has multiple diagnosis. I’m not gonna go into details with those. Yeah. Um, since he was a little, um, we knew that things were a little bit different.
He was our first one, so we didn’t know any difference. Um, we tested him early on and there was not much that came out out of the testing. He was, uh, delayed with speech, so he was on IEP program from the very beginning. He was easily getting stressed, and as he was growing older and older, the component of him just being.
Very, not paranoid, but I don’t know how to, how to say it, but aware of what other people think about it, but about him and the huge desire to fit in. And I think he also had the awareness that he is a little bit different than others. That really caused a lot of, um, issues in the middle school. So that’s where it all started.
Um, he got separated from the friends group that he was in elementary school, and then he started getting exposed to a lot of things. So that’s where we decided. That we want a little bit more information about what’s going on with him. Again, we did not know like is this the tough teenage years that people were warning us about or is this more because we had huge anger outbursts at home.
We had a lot of suspensions at school. His confusion. So it was very, very chaotic. So we decided to seek for treatment and diagnosis. So there were other diagnosis that came into play. Our approach was also though, so our son was through therapy, speech therapy, OT therapy, you know, psychotherapy from the VER early on.
So he was used to that, that rhythm and that kind of help. So he continued and our approach was always, let’s try what we can within our environment so he’s not detached from it. He will be able to adopt and thrive. Yeah, that was not the case. Um, we, we had in the back pocket, like we heard about this wilderness programs.
We heard about this residential treatment. We did not think we were there until 2020, until actually high school. So he was, um, he was sophomore, I think at that time in high school, and that’s where high middle school was rough. That’s where somebody who Anna started. Bottles of beer, we found, again, heavy therapy.
Um, he actually was also, um, in the outpatient therapy for I think like two weeks close to home. None of this work. And that’s where also like some, um, 51 50 start appearing. So we had to call the police because we did not feel safe at home. Um, and we did not also feel he was safe, um, for himself. So I think the first episode was, uh, where my husband had to, like, he didn’t agree with something and then my husband had to pull over the car because my son who.
He was, he’s always been physically matured more that mentally, and he’s pretty big guy, 6.10 and he started like kicking in the car and, you know, trying to break things. My husband pulled over and had to call the, like there was no way to contain him. So that was like the first 50, 1 50 and then things just start escalating from time to time.
So when he went to high school, The, we start when this was happening in middle school, like, okay, let’s see the right high school with the right program. That could be another good, uh, good intervention or something that would help him to thrive. So we did a lot of research on high schools. What would be good for him?
He got into that high school. And then two weeks into it is like, this is not a place for me. I, I really wanna be in this big public high school and I promise I’ll do everything. Of course, we talk with therapists, we talk to him how, you know, what would be the best. And he was really getting also like angry and violent about like, what if we don’t make this decision if we don’t let him?
So we’re like, Okay. If he stays where he is, he’s gonna be angry and we are gonna leave the live relief. Or there is a chance, maybe he’ll be better, or maybe he will be staying angry. We don’t know. So we decided for him, for him to get moved to the different high school. He also, by the way, had a move from one middle school to another because things were not going well.
So, excuse me. Really tough for him. And for us it was always like trying the next thing that we were like hopeful for. Right? Yeah. Unfortunately, whatever we were trying it. Finding out the thing that doesn’t work, which , uh, which is also knowledge, just harder knowledge to go 
[00:10:58] Brenda: through. Yes. Right. ? Yes. So he is moved a couple of schools.
The, the, I’m assuming the new high school did not go so well. 
[00:11:08] Karolina: Yes. So the high school did not go well. More suspensions, more aggression, more drugs. and, um, violent at home, frankly. Started, Yeah, physically, and it was on New Year’s Day. He came home. Under, you know, heavy substance abuse. And our, our worry was always, we smell mariajuana, but is it only mariajuana?
Yeah, yeah. Or is it more so we, when we saw him in that state, we’re like, Okay, we don’t know, is he taking anything else? So we wanna take him to the emergency room. And that’s where he became super violent. He hurt my husband and that’s where we called and. He went 4 50, 1 50. And at that time we knew he cannot be home with us.
We don’t feel safe. Um, he is not safe going around and doing the things that he’s doing and that times, And so from 51 50, he was in the place, like 72 hours. They were evaluating. and then determining the next steps. So the next steps was actually, um, a psychiatric hospital because he was not stable, and then there he was for about 10 days and that’s the time that we had to figure out what’s next.
Yeah. So the next was wilderness program. It was a wilderness program. Super hard, like for anyone that goes through this experience. Very hard, very 
[00:12:45] Brenda: hard. So hard, So hard. Hard on the kids, and also so hard on you as a parent. 
[00:12:51] Karolina: Yeah. Yeah. I think for my son at the beginning wasn’t that hard because he wanted so much to get out of that hospital.
and he eventually agreed he’s gonna go into treatment. He thought it would be like an intensive program he had, He was before for two weeks, close to home. We came and visit him. Little he knew he was, He went to sleep in the car. So we had someone picking him up from the hospital and little he knew, he woke up and he was stepping in the freezing.
Right, because it was in the winter, right? Right. So then, then the whole wilderness journey started and you know, him begging us to come pick him up and he’s gonna change and all of that. Glad we did not listen. We followed the advice of the journey, the process. Yes. Um, and we did get to visit him again, was back in 2020.
We visited him. The change was huge. Um, The family reunion was just something I think up to bring it up, up to this day. And uh, yeah. And then we were like, Okay, is he ready, Is he not? Like it’s so much different in wilderness that it is at home, so we decided to move onto the residential treatment. And when he moved on to residential treatment, I think like few days after Covid hit.
So we had no idea. I mean, no, none of us knew. What does that mean? For us, it was even worse. We did not know, are we gonna see him when and. And he was not impacted. He, he had no idea he was already removed from home, so yeah. Yeah. Fast forward. He was in the treatment for a year and a half. He came back home in July, in late June, and he was training 18 in July.
So we had a lot of conversations about the transition. He told us that when he is home, he still had the senior year of high school to complete. He told us when he’s 18, he’s committing to high school. Um, and he does not want to live with us. He wants to live on his own. So we help him with discuss housing options.
We had a family member, um, my husband’s nephew that had a room to. So he rented the room. He was working at our family restaurant, so making the money, and then he started school. It was, we work with him together to choose again, the right school, which we thought would be. Turned out it was not. So he started living with his cousins.
Start going to that school first. It was, The school is not right for me. He found a different program, different high school program. We were like, Okay. He started that. Then it was time, he’s like, I don’t like living with my cousin. I’m gonna move out. He move out. So he ended up in. Like a shelter for use, an organized program that was even a supervisor.
Um, and um, yeah, he was there and then he was doing the school and he was meeting with us regularly. He quit the job in the, our restaurant. He found another job. So when we were like talking to ourselves, me and my husband, like, Oh, our son is in the shelter. He’s still going in the school and he’s still working, and when he gets together with us, he seems okay.
So we were not that much worried that things are going the wrong way. So from there, he was there in the program, I guess it’s a program for youth. He found out all the in and out of it. And the situation now is that he is in a different housing situation. When he has his own room, he has the key to drum, it’s at home.
With that, he shares with four other. He continues working. He found another job. He’s been in this job for I think seven months and, um, he continues to do school and, uh, longer than we’re all expected. He does have only one class left and he’s managing all of this on his own. So, yeah, so there are obviously totally change of expectations that we had when, you know, he went to kindergarten, , and elementary.
But through the process of my own therapy being in the communities in like Stream, I’ve learned that, you know, we need to alter our expectations and put other priorities, um, in a different place. So, yeah, but that’s a little bit where. Where we are right now and. Wow. You have any questions? Better than I go next to my concerns?
Cause there are things that worry me that I’m really concerned. Yes, of 
[00:18:02] Brenda: course. No, we will definitely get to that. Um, but I do of course have some thoughts. Um, number one, you have a very resourceful young man on your hands to have gone through everything that he did and then to find this program where he could.
Granted from the parents’ standpoint where you’re at, you know, a healthy functioning family and you’re financially sound to think of your son living in a shelter for, I guess homeless youth or something like that could be very, like, there’s a huge disconnect there, right? There’s just a lot of dissonance in like, Well, wait, that doesn’t make any sense.
However, he showed the initiative to figure that. To, you know, to move himself around. So it sounds like he’s got a lot of resourcefulness, a lot of independence, and I’m guessing that’s probably something that he values a lot, is that independence and doing things for himself, finding his own solutions, figuring out the school situation.
So I know it’s really easy to get focused on all of the negative because it, it’s, it’s a lot. It’s, you’ve been through a lot. Traumatic events. Um, I know when you know kids are violent and aggressive and you do 51 50 s, like that’s serious. Those are very impactful and traumatic events for you and for your husband.
So I just wanna acknowledge that because we can get to a point after a couple of years where everything blurs together, where we, we tend to sort of minimize. Well, yeah, well we went through that. Oh yeah. And then there was that other time when this happened. Yeah. And you know, so, but that has all left an imprint on you and you’re still living with that even though he’s in a, you know, a better place.
I just wanna acknowledge that there’s so much there. And I know as when I tell my story, What you just went through is probably 10% of everything that you have dealt with. So there’s a lot in between, right? That’s, yeah. The little moments, the, you know, the phone calls, the trips to the emergency room or the trip.
Yeah. The sitting in the school and having to face the. Principal or the school counselor, like there’s a million little, you know, they talk about like death by paper cuts. And that’s what I think of as like you just told me about the giant, like giant paper cuts. Yeah. And there’s probably a million teeny little ones that just great and great and great and great year after year on you plus Covid.
So let’s not forget , that all of this was going on during a global health pandemic. Yeah, huge. So I find when I’m talking to people, and especially when I’m doing coaching like this, you are so strong and you’re so capable that you sometimes might even minimize to yourself. The degree of stress and strain that you have been under for so long, relentlessly, even if you have the happy moments, right?
Like you go on a family vacation or something works out well and your son comes and it’s happy for those moments, there’s just an kind of this blanket of heaviness and fear and worry that you have been living under. Is really important to acknowledge to yourself because you, you have to give yourself some compassion and understanding for all of that.
So I just wanted to make sure and, and say that, um, Thank you. Yeah.
Hi, I’m taking a quick break because I wanna let you know about the private online community I created and host for moms who have kids misusing drugs or alcohol. It’s where I hang out between the episodes, so I wanted to share a little bit about it. This place is called The Stream, and it isn’t a Facebook group.
It’s completely private away from all social media sites where you start to take care of your. Because through all of this, who is taking care of you, The Stream is a place where we teach the craft approach and skills to help you have better conversations and relationships, and we help you get as physically, mentally, and spiritually healthy as possible so that you can be even stronger for your son or daughter.
You can join us free for two weeks to see if it’s the right kind of support for you and learn more about all the benefits that you get as a member at the. community.com and I’ll see you there. Now let’s get back to the conversation
then. I know. That there are probably some things that you are still struggling with because he is only 19 and Yes. In the United States we say that they’re an adult at 19. Mm-hmm. , I think that’s crazy. personally, you know, um, because especially if there was substance use involved, the, you know, there’s been delays in development and things like that, so, I would love to hear, when you kind of think about what’s going on in your life right now, what are the tension points or what are the mm-hmm , those things that still feel like, you know, yes, things are where they are and I’m still feeling like this, or this is still a problem I wanna solve, or this is a shift I wanna see, um, what comes to mind when I say those things?
Hmm. 
[00:23:48] Karolina: I think that could be like more coaching episode . So much. Well, first of all, thank you, uh, Brenda, for acknowledging all of this. Yeah. It’s sometimes it just, when I say my story, it’s just a story because I said it like to my friends already, but it does the, the little paper cuts, like Yeah, they do, they do accumulate and then they come.
In the situations later on, 
[00:24:13] Brenda: so yeah. Yes they do. They absolutely do. That one little one that you didn’t think was that bad will start bleeding and then you start scratching at it and Yeah. So, yeah, definitely. Well, we can, we can brainstorm too on what feels like something that you want to work on, because ideally what we do in these sessions is we just identify one or two things.
Mm-hmm. that feel realistic. Yeah, for you, right? Like, I would love to wave my magic wand that I don’t have and make everything better, um, which I obviously don’t have. Um, however, there are little ones that we can wave that start to make things better. Yeah. And so what we can do to, if you want is just you can just kind of talk about like, maybe there’s three or four things that are still feeling really sticky and really icky.
And then we can go from there and see, well, which one seems like kind of, if I could resolve this one or if I could just dial this one down, then maybe the other ones would start to feel better as well. Does that make 
[00:25:16] Karolina: sense? Sounds good. Yeah, sounds good. So I can think of three on top of my head. Great. Um, so the first one is something that I’m still struggling with, um, around.
Dreams for my son and just agreement and acceptance where he is and where we are as a, as a family, I’ve never expected we would be living the life that we are living. So that would be number one. And number two, actually that comes very close to, to this. Not, not expecting. The, the way we are leaving that, that would be our future, is the relationship of my older son with my younger one.
So my older one left home again in his sophomore year and then he came back and he, he left the home. So it really worries me and I don’t know to. We, I can help or intervene or, you know, help, I guess that’s the right word. Mm-hmm. in, in building the relationship between them because I do see like they kind of parting and yeah.
Try to keep the perspective that they’re, you know, long term things might be different. I just wanna make sure it’s a mom. If there is anything I can be, excuse me doing now, I would love to do. At the same time. I know in the past I was helping too much . That’s why he wants too much independence though.
Yes. So I dunno, where’s that boundary? And then the third item is, oh my gosh. It’s like I’m snowballing each thing. Um, so the third thing is like, yeah, in the past, Helping too much, but then that helping felt more in control. . Mmm. And now my son is not living with us. He does still smoke weed. Mm-hmm. . Um, he, we see him once or twice a week and he responds to text.
Um, he seems groomed and we, since he came back, um, Almost a year and a half ago, we’ve really had like one or two like heated arguments. So we’ve been living live in Disneyland for the last year and a half, comparing what it was before, no police, no hospitals, none of that. However, I’m still worried. I know he.
He had these ideas about gangs and belonging. I don’t know how much he’s keeping from us, how much he is really experiment, well, not experimenting at this point, but really doing substances when he’s not with us. So how do I like healthy detach and not feel guilty about it? And know that I’m doing what I, what I can do and that’s it.
So yeah, , those are, those are the three things I’m not leaving. I’m, how to accept the life that I have because I never dreamed where I would be, where I am. Improving the relationship between my two sons and then managing my myself, my own anxiety, uh, around, you know, him really departing from home so abruptly sooner than I ever thought He.
[00:28:44] Brenda: Yeah, so it’s so hard as a mom, um, especially when we see our kids leaving and um, and things don’t go the way that we thought they were gonna go. And you probably had a vision when your boys were little and they were so cute and cuddly and you know, what things were gonna turn out to be like. And now that hasn’t come true.
Things look very different. And how do you accept that and live with that? So I hear you. It’s, it’s, those are, those are big things. I guess what I would say is, which one feels the most painful or which one causes the most disruption in your life, do you think of those three? Hmm. 
[00:29:29] Karolina: I feel like the one that I have the least, Tools to deal with, and the least perspective that I can grasp on, and the one that causes the most anxiety is not knowing where he is, how much he drinks, how mu if he uses what he’s using, how is he doing good things for his future?
Is he pretending when he’s with us? Are we gonna get that call? Or not. And yeah, so I think that one is like the, the hardest one for me. 
[00:30:07] Brenda: Yeah. So if you could get some tools to work with that one, then maybe the other ones would start to feel a little bit more manageable or there’s, they might still be there, but at least you feel like you’ve got some.
Agency over the, the one that’s kind of the big scratchy one. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Yeah. Well, if you want, we can talk about that one and just see, dig into it a little bit more and see what’s underneath there. And you know, I’m not a therapist, I always like to say that, not a therapist. And so what I like to do is just help you cuz you know, like you are the expert in you.
Right. I. I love all the time that we’ve spent together, but I don’t know you, I haven’t lived with you for your life. So what I like to do is to be able to tap into all the experience that you have with yourself. Mm-hmm. , all the knowledge that you have. You know, your personality, you know your strengths, your weaknesses, your patterns, your, you know, all of that.
Mm-hmm. . So in therapy, a lot of the times you’re doing deeper kind of. Family work and maybe looking back into your past with your parents or like all of that stuff that I am totally not qualified to do. Um, but I do find that there are things that are just in your day to day world that can help with, with things like this.
And so, and they tend to be a little bit more practical. Um, so I always like to make sure that people do have their own therapist cuz that work is so important to do. Um, so with that being said, tell me a little bit more about how this feeling or how this, um, situation, like what is it causing in you? Is it causing anxiety?
Does it cause you to miss work? Just talk a little bit about what impact this is having on you. . 
[00:32:05] Karolina: Uh, yeah, I think anxiety, and I think also me just not liking myself for what I’m doing because it’s like, I know when he, let’s say he calls me once a week. In my head is already ringing. Did you go to school?
How is the school going? Right. Or when I’m gonna, When you gonna come to the house? When you’re gonna come home. But more of the and and then, you know, it’s like mom like would just stop asking me all these questions. So then I’m like, Okay, here I am controlling again. Like what about like building a relationship between us?
Like how am I supposed to do that? So those are the two things I guess, that yes, I’m anxious about the future. Is he wasting time or not? Why is he doing things hard way? We are here to help give him independence too, but like help him to do things easier way, but he refuses that. Um, and then, yeah, how to build the relationship with him with less anxiety and less controlling and asking the question that build the relationship rather than discourage him from picking up my next call.
[00:33:24] Brenda: Right. Yeah. Well, I was gonna say, it’s so amazing that you are seeing him regularly and you’re communicating if, if, if just by text or phone. You said that he seems well groomed, he is going to school. Um, so I know it’s, there’s always the tendency to play the movie out in your head, right? Of, Well, what else is going on that I’m, that I’m not seeing?
Or is he faking it? But it looks like, and, and you’ve seen him in the past mm-hmm. , and I’m sure he wasn’t well groomed and he probably wasn’t going to school and he wasn’t communicating with you. So it seems like you have a pretty good litmus test of, Okay, I know what he’s like when he’s not healthy and well mm-hmm.
and, and this doesn’t necessarily look like that. So that’s a good sign. Mm-hmm. , um, So you might be able to kind of keep that as a, as a baseline. When you do talk to him, do you feel like you can have some pretty real conversations with him or does it feel more surface? It feels more 
[00:34:31] Karolina: surface. 
[00:34:33] Brenda: Mm-hmm. . Okay.
And I’m sure you would probably like it to be a little bit more in depth. Yes. . 
[00:34:41] Karolina: Yeah. I, I feel like he is holding. Back a lot of things from, from sharing. Mm. 
[00:34:49] Brenda: Why do you think he does 
[00:34:50] Karolina: that? Uh, because I’m gonna judge, even though I say now, like I work on, sometimes I start conversations like, Okay, so how was your weekend?
And just tell me that no judging . Um, so I even throw it out there, but I. Maybe he still fears that. I don’t know. Yeah. 
[00:35:11] Brenda: So he’s thinking, if I tell my mom if I open up, my mom’s probably gonna judge me. Yeah. Correct me. Try to control what I’m doing. Give me her opinion of how I’m doing or how I’m not doing.
Mm-hmm. . So if you had a colleague like that, would you wanna open up to them? 
[00:35:33] Karolina: Hmm. . Oh my gosh. Great question. . Um, I guess I’m blessed. I don’t have friends like that.
[00:35:45] Brenda: Yeah. So think if you, if you had a friend or you worked with somebody and you knew that if you opened up to them about something and their response was going to be, Well, you could be doing this, or you could be doing that, or you know, you, you’re, you’re smart enough, you could be doing this other thing and we’ve given you all these opportunities, do you think you’re gonna likely go back to that person and open up?
No. What would you want them 
[00:36:14] Karolina: to say? I would want them to appreciate what I’m doing and that I’m sharing with them. 
[00:36:21] Brenda: What, What would that sound like? 
[00:36:24] Karolina: It would sound like. I see you working very hard on this and you stay on track and you are motivated to do it, and if you ever seek advice or if you want to chat over whatever you’re doing, you get stuck.
I’m happy 
[00:36:42] Brenda: to do that. That sounds amazing. And it doesn’t sound like you’re trying to control it. It doesn’t sound like you’re trying to. Jump in there with your thoughts. Mm. It felt, when you were saying that to me, it felt like, Oh, here’s a person who can kind of empathize with me. You know, you, it might even sound like, you know, Wow, I can’t imagine how you’re doing all of this.
Right? It’s so much. Mm-hmm. . So I wonder if that could be something that you could try, like, experiment with that and say, for the next two weeks, When, when my son calls me or if we’re together or if I text him, I’m gonna picture, and maybe you even know somebody at work or a friend. Who you can visualize.
Mm mm-hmm. in your mind and you think, What would I say to Bill at work? Or what would I say to Mary if she had come to me and said, Oh gosh, you know, I’m trying to finish school. I’m trying to, you know, find some new friends. I’m having a really hard time finding friends. I’m really tempted, you know, to smoke weed all the time, but I know I probably shouldn’t cuz it makes me tired and then I can’t get to work.
What would you say to Bill or to Mary, and maybe you can start to work from that mindset with him to, to see just what his response would be and if it would be different. Um, what does that, how does that sound to you? 
[00:38:22] Karolina: That sounds good. And when I’m gonna ask him about the school , like, I cannot imagine having a call and like, not really like asking and that’s what he doesn’t like, 
[00:38:40] Brenda: so.
Right. So, so that’s, that’s good to bring up. So can you control whether he goes to school or not? Oh, 
[00:38:50] Karolina: no. not anymore. not since, uh, elementary school, 
[00:38:56] Brenda: really. Right. What do you think would happen if, for these two weeks while you’re doing this experiment, you never once said the word school to him or asked about it?
Just you, You can go back to it if you want, but there’s a ban for the next two weeks on the word school or the topic of school. It’s not allowed. Well, I think 
[00:39:18] Karolina: I, it would be hard for me. 
[00:39:21] Brenda: Okay. What, what would be hard, what would be hard about it? 
[00:39:26] Karolina: That I think that for his own best interest and for his future, it is good for him to stay on track.
And I know this month, um, he only has one class left and he could graduate the end of September. So, I would like to motivate him to do it. And I know the way I’m thinking about motivating and like asking every week, like, Hey, how’s this week going? And, um, and appreciating even his effort, like that’s not gonna settle with him.
And then I’m afraid if I don’t say anything, like what if things go slip? Right. And it’s not gonna be September and it might be October or November. Mm-hmm. . 
[00:40:12] Brenda: Right. Okay. So this is perfect. So. You said you wanna motivate him, which is awesome. That’s great. And when you ask him about it or mention it, you said that that’s not motivating to him.
So you know your son better than anyone. What does motivate him? Like, what does he love? Like what’s, what’s he into, What is he like? What gets his juices flowing? Uh, 
[00:40:41] Karolina: well, he does have things, um, that I know necessarily like, but it, I mean, doesn’t have to be the same thing that we like, but. What he likes. So he likes rap music.
Okay. Uh, he likes hiking. He likes new clothes. He likes to eat good food. 
[00:41:06] Brenda: Mm-hmm. . Well, those are all good things. So 
[00:41:09] Karolina: he likes weed. That’s not good, 
[00:41:11] Brenda: right? Well, we’re gonna leave that one off the list. Yeah. So if, if rock music and hiking and clothes and food really motivate him and mom, nagging about school does not motivate him.
What would be the better option for the next two weeks for your experiment? 
[00:41:28] Karolina: So, Brenda, just a small correction. It’s not a rock I wish. 
[00:41:33] Brenda: It’s rap. Oh, rap music. Yes. Yes. I, I should have known that because that is a common denominator for most of our kids. So I, I hear you on that rap music. So I’m wondering how, what are your ideas about how you could use any of those things to motivate him?
[00:41:51] Karolina: Mm-hmm. . So I could talk to him about, um, a hike somewhere. The, the problem with this is that he gets excited about it and we even had like some hike scheduled and then things come up and he cannot do it. And then I get upset that we schedule it and he cannot do it. Yeah. So I don’t know to what degree that could be motivating to him.
Yeah. Um, and then with the good food, Could be for him to pick a place where he would like to eat out or come home and I’ll cook his favorite food. 
[00:42:28] Brenda: Mm-hmm. , is there a way that you could combine that? Um, school Now, is he, is it like studying that he needs to do or is it, is he doing an online school or what’s the, what does he actually need to do?
So it 
[00:42:43] Karolina: is like an online school, like independent study through an adult education. So for those who are older than 18 mm, And he is going there once a week and he has assignments throughout the week that he needs to complete, and it is 
[00:43:00] Brenda: Okay. What do you think gets in his way of completing the assignments?
Or does he, Is he like, is he on track or is he behind? 
[00:43:08] Karolina: So his first option was that he will graduate the end of August and I think he had two classes, so he did not complete that one class that still. Moved over to September. 
[00:43:23] Brenda: So he is got one class left to do. Mm-hmm. , do you think he wants to finish? I think he does.
So if he, I’m just trying to kind of formulate a little plan to combine some of the things that do motivate him. Mm-hmm. with finishing school. And, um, do you know what gets in his way of finishing the, the class? Um, 
[00:43:51] Karolina: I think it might be tiredness that he’s tired and then he’s pulled away by his friends.
Yeah. 
[00:43:59] Brenda: So he is getting distracted and he is tired. Mm-hmm. . So, I mean, what what could be interesting would be to see if he would be open to. Maybe coming to your house, spending an hour or two working on his school stuff, and you know, at the end of that you’re gonna have his favorite meal. Something like that, That might not be it, but something where you could sort of motivate him through something that you know he loves and, and do it in a way that says, you know, hey, if you ha, you know, if you wanna come over.
Spend a little bit of time using our internet or whatever it is, you know? Yeah. Whatever. The combination of things, like it’s a quiet place. You can use our internet, you know, I’m gonna be cooking and I pr and you can even say, I promise I will not nag you. Right. I’m not gonna be looking over your shoulders.
I’m gonna be cooking and then we’re gonna have this amazing meal at six o’clock. Mm-hmm. would love to see, you know, if you wanna come over around three. Cool. And then at six o’clock we’ll eat. And you might have to do this several times cuz he might say, Yeah, yeah, I’ll just show up for dinner. Okay, that’s okay.
Maybe the next time, well yeah, I could probably come an hour earlier and then, you know, so it may be one of those things that you have to work at or you try something else with the hike and, and you just have to go into it knowing there is probably a 50 50 chance that this is gonna happen and I am not gonna be heartbroken if it doesn’t happen.
Because I already knew that I’m gonna go and for him to know, you know, if he gets a text that says, No worries, I’m on my way, you know, I’m, I’m on the trail already, then he knows you’re not ruminating on him and that he’s caused you to be so sad and. It’ll kind of be like, Wow, my mom’s just off doing her thing.
Like, okay, just puts a little distance there. Yeah. But if you could find a way to, if he truly needs the motivation, and I think that’s one thing I’m still not totally clear on. Like he, he could be doing this all on his own and just eek it in by the last minute. And if you were sitting, you know, let’s say you took a trip to New Zealand and you were gone, right?
You cannot communicate with him. There’s a very good chance, based on what you’ve told me about him, that he’s going to, he is gonna pull this thing through. It might be by the hair of his chinny chin chin at the 11th hour, but he sounds like the kind of guy who’s gonna make it happen. Mmm. So what I’m wondering is if you can resist the urge and the temptation to interfere with that, right?
He is the guy who likes to do it on his own. He’s gonna have so much pride. Think, and, and this might be a motivating factor for you, is think about the pride that’s gonna be in his face when he comes over for dinner and he says, Mom, I did it. Done. And you’re like, what? Are 
[00:47:05] Karolina: you just, Oh my gosh. Yeah. And I can, I can imagine my joy too, right?
[00:47:10] Brenda: You’re gonna be so excited and then you’re gonna say, Oh my gosh, we’re gonna go, here’s, you know, we’re gonna go on a clothing spree for you, whatever. Like, so it’s really hard, but, but it feels like at this point, if you could. Pull back. And I know it’s counterintuitive cuz you think it’s the last, like he’s just got this last class.
The more I lean in and the more I press, it’s gonna help. And it’s not, it’s doing the opposite, you know? And, and so he may just be really surprised and he may, if you pull back, he may even say to you, Cause I’ve had this happen with some of our moms who have made these big shifts in, in the way they’re interacting.
Their kid will come to him and say, What are you doing? Like what? What’s going on? Because you used to be nagging me all the time, or you used to be reminding me or used to be all over me and now you’re not. Mm-hmm. , why are you inviting me over for dinner? Why are you, you know, and it’s just so much more motivating.
Just like when you think about the colleague that you work with who’s nagging on you and telling you, Oh, well Carolina, you should do, Here’s the, the, because I found that this works really well and this is what you should do. It’s, you’re just like, What are you gonna do, Whoop. You’re gonna pull way back and you’re gonna be like, Oh, that is not helpful.
Not what I want. So how is this sounding like overall as a, something to continue to work with? And you’re gonna have to formulate your plan mm-hmm. , but does it sound like it’s in the neighborhood of something that would be realistic to do in the next couple weeks? 
[00:48:50] Karolina: Yeah. I, I really like, um, I really like, you know, that perspective of a friend telling me how I would feel about it.
And then whenever I have the urge like to talk to him or yeah, talking to him, I can imagine that my best friend is there and would I say those things to my best friend versus, you know, what would I say to my son? I think I can, I can do that. That sounds very realistic. 
[00:49:19] Brenda: Awesome. 
[00:49:20] Karolina: So let’s, let’s, And you, you also.
Teased me, um, teased me, Brenda, about that feeling of joy that he comes home one day and say, Mom, I’m done. And I’m like, Oh gosh. And I didn’t, even, as a mom, I didn’t move my finger about it, whatever he did, so I would be happy for him to own the whole thing. Right. And I would be happy, and to some extent, proud of myself that I wasn’t.
Knocking about it. So I think I’m gonna stick to. Awesome. Awesome. I think that would be motivating for him at the same time. 
[00:49:58] Brenda: Well, yeah, and I think he’s, he is going to, like, if this is something that you’re, you know, continually doing, he’s gonna notice pretty quickly in the absence of that. Right. And so you could, you know, just like you said, when we were doing the little role play as your coworker, like.
You would rather know like, Well, what’s going on? Like, how you know what’s new? What’s the new music that you’re listening to? Even if you detest the music. Mm-hmm. , who cares? Right? What’s the new music you’re listening to? Or, Hey, when could we get together to do that hike again? Inoculating yourself against the disappointment of him not showing up, which is okay, cuz you’re still gonna go, right?
You’re still gonna do it and that’s fine, but he’s gonna notice pretty quickly a shift in you. Mm. and he’s gonna be like, Huh, okay. She’s not nagging me, so therefore I’m gonna be a little bit more open to talking to her because I’m not getting what I don’t want. I’m getting what I do want. I’m getting that encouragement, you know?
Hey, is there, If there’s anything, like you said when we were doing the little role play, you said is if there’s ever anything I can do, let me know. Period. Right. That’s where you gotta, like , we always, we always tease in the community about we’re gonna invent a lip clip, like the lip chip, you know, the, the clips you put on your potato chip bags.
Like, we’re gonna get one for our lips because we need to just. Stop clip . A little clip just to stop, you know, If there’s ever anything I can do, let me know. He is gonna notice this and I’m gonna be really curious to hear what the, what the shift is. And yes, as the prize, you know, we need a little carrot out in front of us.
A lot of the time that prize is gonna be the pride on his face when he walks in and says, Mom, I did it. I am done. Yeah, with school. I’m done and you’re gonna be like, Yes, . And yeah. So Well, if that feels realistic, I think that would be a good place to start. And, um, And I, I will be very curious to get the results of the test and, and think, think of it in that way, right?
It is like a, it’s an experiment. It’s just something to try cuz what you’ve been doing hasn’t been working, right? Yeah. So why keep doing it? But you kind of need. Another trick, right? Like, we need another little pony to hop on and try a new trick. Yeah. So this, this can be your new experiment and then, and see how it goes.
And you can even at some point tell him like, I’m just trying different stuff buddy. Cuz I, I, so, you know, I so wanna communicate with you and. So Well, I think, I think you’ve got a good plan in front of you. Yeah. When, when are you thinking you’re going to, When will you be able to make it like your first attempt at this?
Do you have any plans to see him or talk with him? 
[00:53:03] Karolina: I think I’m gonna give him a call today. Uh, cuz I’m going away for a weekend. Typically he comes over during the weekend. Mm-hmm. and then I know he’s taking a trip with my husband, um, out of town next week, so I’m not gonna see him. Okay. So I’ll give him a call today and I wanna ask anything about the school.
[00:53:26] Brenda: Right. What are a couple, Is there anything, you know, positive reinforcement is so helpful and it’s contagious and it just can really shift the conversation. Is there something that you, when you talk to him today, that you could just say, You know what, I’m so impressed, or, I’m so inspired by the way you like, 
[00:53:49] Karolina: I can say how he’s committed to working because I am, he works really hard and he works night shifts actually.
Um, so yeah, he works really hard and he did communicate before I go out of town with dad, I’m gonna ask for all the shifts available cuz I wanna make good money. And, um, I’ve been seeing, um, that he is at work. We still have the tracking of which he is, he willingly. So he knows. Yeah. Um, so yeah. Yeah. So I’m very proud of him, how hard he’s working.
So I think I can definitely acknowledge. 
[00:54:25] Brenda: Yeah, definitely. Well, I think with that and leaving the school subject off limits, it, you, you’re setting yourself up for a really positive conversation. And you could maybe even throw out that idea of another hike when he gets back, right? Like, Oh, I, I’m gonna be hiking more when you get back.
Would love to get on the trail with you. Let’s, let’s set something up. Or, you know, whatever would appeal to him. Yeah, 
[00:54:50] Karolina: I would love to pick up that high conversation. I think those are really good. Yeah. Talking points. 
[00:54:56] Brenda: Yeah. Awesome. All right, we’ll stay in touch so I can get the results. Thank you so 
[00:55:03] Karolina: much.
Yeah, likewise Brenda. Thank you for I, Yeah, for showing me this different perspective. This is when you never done with this work and seeing, you know, talking through something, um, even like being in coaching, getting coached. By someone else before going through therapy like you’ve never done. You can, you know, the new conversation can open up something new in your head.
Like just happen in that podcast with that role play of a friend or that joy that he and that pride on his face that I won’t do anything about it. So, yeah. Thank you so 
[00:55:41] Brenda: much, . Of course, of course. There’s so much to learn. Always . Yeah. 
[00:55:46] Karolina: I really appreciate this time. Okay, I’ll talk to you soon. Thank you. Bye Brenda.
Bye. 
[00:55:54] Brenda: Okay, that is it for today. If you would like to get the show notes for this episode, you can go to brenda zane.com/podcast. All of the episodes are listed there and you can also find curated playlists there, so that’s very helpful. You might also wanna download a free ebook I wrote, it’s called Hindsight.
Three Things I Wish I Knew When My Son Was Misusing Drugs. It’ll give you some insight as to why your son or daughter might be doing what they are, and importantly, it gives you tips on how to. And how to be more healthy through this rough time. You can grab that free from brenda’s name.com/hindsight.
Thank you so much for listening. I appreciate it and I hope that these episodes are helping you stay strong and be very, very good to yourself, and I will meet you right back here next week.