Discreet, Whole-Person Therapy for High-Profile & Celebrity Families with Aaron & Lin Sternlicht

SPEAKERS: Aaron Sternlicht, Lin Sternlicht, Brenda Zane

[00:00:00] Brenda: Welcome to Hopestream, a podcast for parents who are trying to navigate the tricky waters of a child who’s in active addiction, treatment, or early recovery. I’m Brenda Zane, your host and fellow mom to a son who battled a prescription drug addiction and nearly lost his life to multiple fentanyl overdoses. 


So I see you and I feel your pain all too well. HopeStream is the place where you’ll find resources from experts, stories from families, and thoughts and perspectives from me on how to keep some sanity and sense of health while your child is in a very scary and risky situation. There’s a lot of attention and focus that gets placed on our kids, but who’s focused on helping you? 


I am. I hope you’ll subscribe and listen each week as we give each other strength and hope. And now let’s get into today’s episode. Welcome to this week’s episode of Hopestream. I hope everybody is adjusting with the slow reopening of our country. I think it’s going to be a long period of reorienting to the world and all the things that we can and can’t do, or have to do with restriction. 


it’s a lot, so hang in there. For this episode, I got to talk with two incredible people, Erin and Lynn Sternlicht, who have a practice in New York called Family Addiction Specialists. It’s a boutique concierge practice where they work with high net worth individuals and their families, executives, professional athletes, and celebrities who are all struggling with substance use disorders, behavioral addictions, depression, Anxiety and other mental health issues. 


And their services are highly discreet and confidential, and they really give every one of their clients impeccable hands on support and guidance. And what I really love about their practice is that they place a a special emphasis on things like nutrition, exercise, sleep, meditation, mindfulness, just a person’s overall lifestyle and self care that really helps to improve their mind, body, and spirit and overall well being. 


And they also offer neuro linguistic programming. hypnotherapy and medication assisted treatment. So their clients really get a whole person approach to treating their, all of their challenges. This was a super interesting conversation and really important for families who are in that sort of highly visible position, either in their community or in their home. 


the public in general, and especially for their kids who also deal with some pretty unique challenges. And with that, I will let you listen in on this conversation with Erin and Lynn Sternlicht. Hey, Lynn and Erin, I’m so thrilled to have you with us today on Hope’s Dream. I appreciate you taking the time. 


I know things are crazy right now for, for anybody in this field during COVID 19. So I really appreciate you coming on the show.  


[00:03:20] Aaron: Thank you so much for having us and inviting us on.  


[00:03:23] Lin: Yeah.  


[00:03:23] Brenda: Yeah.  


[00:03:24] Lin: My pleasure. Thank you so much.  


[00:03:26] Brenda: Yeah. I like to start out, some episodes with just a fun question as an icebreaker, I guess they would call it. 


And that is what did you have for breakfast this morning?  


[00:03:39] Lin: Actually,  


I don’t tend  


to eat breakfast. So I usually have my lemon water first thing in the morning. And I have a nice cup of coffee. And so I accidentally do intermittent fasting. So I went to the courts having lunch.  


[00:03:57] Aaron: It’s funny. I think that’s why we both hesitate on that question. 


I’m actually doing intermittent fasting as well. so I have not eaten a real meal yet.  


[00:04:05] Brenda: Oh, wow. Wow. So Lynn, what does the lemon water do? I’m curious about that.  


[00:04:11] Lin: so you know how, there are lots of, they say, Detoxifies and, gives you extra doses of vitamin C in the morning. 


I don’t really know the, all of the scientifics and I don’t really know if it’s really that efficacious, but it’s just like first thing in the morning, hydrating myself with something citrusy and lemony. it just energizes me before. I always say like detox before it talks. The coffee .  


[00:04:39] Brenda: It’s, it’s a nice balance. 


Yeah. That’s great. That’s great. Yeah. I think a lot of people are doing intermittent fasting. I think that’s really interesting. I haven’t studied it a whole lot, but I have heard that people find good success with it.  


[00:04:54] Aaron: Yeah. I think similar to addiction recovery, different things work for different people. 


with intermittent fasting. I think it’s the same thing. And, I, it’s not only for, if you’re trying to lose weight, but it can also be very beneficial just for overall general physical and mental health for some people. if it works, it works.  


[00:05:13] Brenda: Exactly. Exactly. If it works for you, that’s great. 


Awesome. I would love for you just to, you have such sort of a unique practice, there, and I would love to just get a background on how you came to be doing what you’re doing. either together or separately would be really interesting to hear.  


[00:05:32] Aaron: Yeah. So it’s a long answer for both of us, I think, but we’ll give you the short version. 


And for, for both of us, it’s really our personal experience. So I’m a person in long term recovery from drugs and alcohol, and I always share my story by explaining that my first addiction was to food, and that was from a very young age. always sneaking food behind my parents and eating excessively. 


And this resulted in me being overweight for most of my adolescent and young adult life. And I found myself at the age of 23, being nearly 300 pounds, finding that I had to buy 44 pants because my 42 is no longer fit me. And I was extremely depressed. I was extremely anxious. but to back it up a bit, around the age of 16, I found drugs and alcohol, which helped me cope with my low self esteem that I was experiencing from being overweight. 


so my addiction progressed until I went to treatment, but I went to treatment unwillingly as a result of an intervention from my parents. And, it wasn’t a typical intervention. There was no professional interventionists. They didn’t give me an ultimatum, but I could just see how much I was hurting my parents. 


I could see the pain in their eyes. So I agreed to go. And although I didn’t exactly go willingly about a week into my treatment, a light switch went off in my head. And I had an eyeopening experience where basically I realized that not only could I live a life without drugs and alcohol, But I could actually live a happy, meaningful, and purposeful life without drugs and alcohol. 


[00:07:11] Brenda: And how old  


were you  


then?  


[00:07:13] Aaron: I was 24. 24. Yeah, I was pretty young. in, in, given, given, the nature of addiction. And I was very much inspired by the staff at the treatment center where probably about 99 percent of them were in recovery themselves. And that was not only the therapist, the nurses, the doctors, and absolutely everybody, even down to the fitness trainers. 


So after leaving treatment, I made a decision to go back to school to help other people struggling with addiction. So I got my master’s in mental health counseling. I became a licensed therapist and I’ve been working in the field ever since. So that’s my story in a nutshell. That’s also why I. and Lynn also, we emphasize a holistic approach because for me personally, I know the intimate link between my physical health and my mental health. 


So I’m also glad to say that during the process of my recovery, I’ve also lost a hundred pounds.  


[00:08:13] Brenda: Wow.  
 
[00:08:14] Aaron: yeah. That’s amazing.  


[00:08:16] Brenda: thank you. Was there a part of Yeah. Was there a part of seeing the, I’m just curious, like the, the people that were at the treatment center that you worked with in knowing that they had also been where you were and now we’re doing these amazing jobs. 


Was that sort of part of the eye opening thing? Oh, like you can get out of this world.  


[00:08:36] Aaron: Yeah, that was very inspiring for me. I did go to a treatment center, where they also incorporated a 12 step approach. So for example, in the evenings, there were speakers coming in and of course that was inspiring to me as well because prior to that, I was very lonely. 


I didn’t think that anybody, first of all, had the issues that I did and I didn’t think that anybody could really recover. Seeing them, but I think more importantly, for my own experience, seeing the people in that worked in the treatment center, especially again, the doctors and the therapists and the people who like, you look at them or you talk to them and you would never think that they were in the place where you once were. 


That was very inspiring and very eyeopening.  


[00:09:19] Brenda: Yeah, I would imagine that would be because I know just in talking with some with my son But also we’re talking with so many moms that the kids really feel like I’m never gonna get out of this I’m just never gonna get out of it. there’s no way to To turn this around So I think that’s really interesting to see that somebody just doing physical therapy with you or cooking in the kitchen could be an inspiration Absolutely. 


What about you Lynn?  


[00:09:47] Lin: Yeah, for me, I made a transition from business world to, psychology world and I actually had never intended on becoming an addiction specialist. I went to school to become a trained psychotherapist and very interestingly enough, I was married to someone who worked on wall street who was very high functioning and a high achieving professional who, struggling with very progressive and gradual. 


high functioning alcoholism. So I was in graduate school taking substance use and substance abuse and mental health courses, and I missed all of the steps and I completely lost sight of, the right things to do in the moment because I was so overwhelmed with intense ups and downs of emotions at the time. 


And it was very confusing and darkest time of my life, because there was no over signs of dysfunction, but it was very invisible secretive. There was no domestic violence, there was no like heightened sense of danger or imminent danger. We lived in a beautiful apartment next to Central Park. 


There was always wine tasting. It was a very knowledgeable and sophisticated about wine. So I missed all the signs. And I had no idea. What I was actually going through in the moment. And when things became more visible and became a little more desperate, then, I lost complete sight of myself, my sanity, and I struggled greatly in secrecy and covert dysfunction. 


So that’s how I became about very passionate about, oh, you know what, there is no way out. You know that image of someone falling off the street and you know losing their job losing everything getting in legal trouble And there’s a whole host of almost invisible high functioning alcoholism and addiction That families go through. 


[00:12:01] Brenda: And like you said, if it’s not, if it’s not what in the movies with people throwing things around and all of that it would be very insidious of what’s going on? Is this just, and maybe for a child, you wouldn’t know anything else, so maybe that just becomes normal. 


[00:12:22] Lin: Absolutely. We had a small child and he was actually very wonderful and active parent and he still is. so that, sometimes it was really confusing because he would just let me sleep, over the weekend and he will wake up much earlier than I did to actually take our daughter to the park. 


so it was a very confusing time in my life.  


[00:12:48] Brenda: That, that would be really, really hard to navigate that when you’re, you’re not sure if you are seeing something and then if you are, what is it? Yeah. So then how did you come to have your practice now and, and working with high net worth individuals and celebrities? 


How did that happen?  


[00:13:08] Aaron: So Lynn and I actually met working at a treatment center, and we worked at the treatment center together for a couple of years, very early on in the treatment center. Yeah. Yeah. Lynn and I established a relationship that became more than just work colleagues. We call it a rehab romance, but from the, staff perspective. 


So we’ve been together since then. and when we left that treatment center, we decided to open a private practice and because of our personal and professional experiences, we decided to target high net worth individuals, not only because of that, but also because, And I think this is all over, but especially in New York City, the field of addiction when it comes to lower socioeconomic, class or even middle class is quite saturated, but there’s much fewer options, believe it or not, for, people of, of higher net worth. 


And it’s quite surprising, especially in a city like New York City, which I think is one of the wealthiest cities in the world. So that’s why we decided to focus on that population and, and obviously with our experience of Lynn being on the family side of addiction and myself being a person in recovery, we decided to really try to work with the whole families. 


And although that’s our goal, we realize that that’s not always feasible. So sometimes we do work with addicted individuals without their families. And on the flip side, we also sometimes work with families regardless of if it, the addicted individual is, Yeah,  


[00:14:43] Brenda: because sometimes the family is saying, we need some help, even if they’re not ready for it. 


Yeah. No, I think that’s really interesting because as we know, addiction does not, it’s equal opportunity. It doesn’t matter how much money you have or what, your name is, or if you’re on a stage every day, it It doesn’t care. It’s going to take you either way. And, and I think that’s, that’s been proven. 


I think more and more, as you see more in the media of celebrities that are having either struggles or, sadly are dying. it seems like at a pretty rapid rate that this, this is a killer that doesn’t care who you are.  


[00:15:26] Aaron: Absolutely. As, as they say, it affects everyone from park bench to park Avenue. 


And I think, many could argue that, although addiction doesn’t discriminate possibly on the recovery side, we all internally, can relate with certain emotions and everybody should be able to recover together. Some might be able to argue that. But on the other side, there are unique challenges that all populations face that really, clinicians need to be mindful of and culturally competent in. 


So that’s why I do believe it’s so important because, Lynn and I have experience of working with, also homeless population, especially during the early part of our career. And, They face much different challenges than than somebody who’s a ceo or executive at their company So that’s something important to be mindful of. 


[00:16:16] Brenda: Yeah. Yeah, that’s such an interesting contrast and I guess what what are some of the not being a high net worth individual myself? I wouldn’t know but what are some of the sort of challenges that you see? those families or those individuals that that they experience that maybe other people wouldn’t, as they’re trying to get help. 


[00:16:39] Lin: I would say that people are usually general population. They may be envious of their status, their wealth, their names, or their access, but they often, high net worth individuals and families, they often have issues that money cannot solve. so there are hosts of issues that they really face. 


so for example, even as simple as going to treatment. So sometimes regular families, they, it’s a huge financial investment. Sometimes parents have to clear their life savings or, they have to tap into children’s college savings to enter reputable jobs. High quality treatment centers. 


So it’s the expectations that they give all in, this is our really one opportunity to get well, and we need to really make this work versus sometimes higher, net worth families. They have a lot more resources. So if this doesn’t, if this doesn’t work, we’ll move on to someone else or other options. 


So that seems like that almost like unlimited access and options of, treatments sometimes actually causes hindrance because, okay, we’re not really keeping it all in,  


[00:17:59] Brenda: right? And that’s really interesting.  


[00:18:02] Lin: Yes. And so for example, and especially prominent families and parents, they may, use kind of various prescription drugs getting from their doctors to eat their anxiety pressure or induced sleep. 


So they have more availability and Accessibility to prescription drugs and their own perception of those drugs may not be as dangerous. It’s usually, often around in the house. Children are usually very familiar and they’re less cautious about exposure to prescription drugs. I’m grossly overgeneralizing, but that has been a tendency. 


[00:18:44] Brenda: Yeah, no, you could definitely see that. And I think for any kids when they see it in a bottle prescription bottle, it’s Oh, that must be safe. It’s in a prescription bottle. It came from the doctor. So  


[00:18:54] Lin: yeah,  


[00:18:55] Brenda: if I just sneak one, it’s not gonna, it’s not gonna do anything. Yeah. And even something, as simple as just. 


Going to a therapy appointment could be I guess if you have, paparazzi following you or even just people in your neighborhood know who you are and you’re seen walking into a Treatment center or an AA meeting that could cause problems for some people.  


[00:19:23] Aaron: Absolutely Yeah, privacy is definitely I think a big challenge among this population. 


So You know, successful people often have a fear of being exposed, even if they’re not a public figure. They may have fear of friends or, colleagues finding out about the problem. of course the irony is that they worry about this when it comes to getting help, but in active addiction, they thought they were hiding it so well. 


But, in terms of privacy, a significant concern for high network families is their confidentiality. when you go to treatment center, any treatment center, all patients have to sign a confidentiality agreement. And, of course, staff is, ethically held to, to keep confidentiality. 


But in my experience, and this could be controversial, oftentimes that is broken. So for example, if you’re going into a, a treatment center, you’re expected to keep confidentiality, but all these people are coming and going and especially, people who are not well or, young adults who may not take confidentiality as seriously. 


So oftentimes what can happen is somebody leaves the treatment center and, they’ll tell their friends or family, guess who I was in treatment with. so confidentiality and privacy is a huge concern. So I think that People who really value the utmost privacy should know that there are treatment options out there that are much more exclusive and much more private. 


So that’s one of our philosophies. Everything we do, even from the way we bill our patients to example, for example, or, or for example, we have an undisclosed office location in Manhattan. we really do everything that we can to protect people’s privacy.  


[00:21:12] Brenda: That’s really a unique challenge. I think that normal sort of, middle of the road. 


People don’t have to even think about, where, obviously you don’t want everybody knowing your business, but when it’s when it’s something like that, and especially I would think as a younger person, if you’re an adolescent or a young adult, To know that you’re potentially dragging your family’s name into something, would be added pressure, like there’s enough pressure on these kind of, teens and adolescents, there’s so much pressure anyway, but then that added pressure of having a family name hanging on you, I could, would think would be added. 


Extra stress.  


[00:21:55] Aaron: Absolutely. And that can also fuel their addiction because they may feel that they’ll never live up to their parents or their grandparents standards or expectations. that results in them just feeling hopeless or feeling like they’re disappointing their parents, leading to depression or shame or guilt. 


And. Therefore, fueling their substance use.  


[00:22:15] Brenda: Yeah. And, and I think, a lot of times we hear about all of the crime that goes along with addiction because pretty, pretty soon somebody is not able to afford pills. So then they go to heroin and they’re having to rob a, convenience store to get the money. 


But if you have a lot of money and money’s not an issue, it almost seems like it might be. easier to fuel that addiction because you’re able to go buy whatever you want to buy and you’re not getting into trouble with the law because you’re not having to steal anything from a store. Do you see that? 


[00:22:50] Lin: Absolutely. Not only they have more resources, financial resources to really fuel and maintain their addictive behaviors or substances or any other behavioral addiction, not only that, but they, almost lose their opportunity to learn their lessons the hard way. Like Most people do. So for example, if you’re faced with some kind of legal troubles, most children, young adults have to go through a community services, mandated treatment, or they have to go to court, they have to pave the way and they have to go through six months of court appearances or some kind of monitoring system. 


Whereas, children of high net worth individuals, they don’t really face those issues. And in some part, legal system favors them because they don’t meet the criteria of that he or she’s dangerous and threats in society image,  


[00:23:47] Brenda: right?  


[00:23:49] Lin: So they actually completely miss out on that Opportunity to learn their lessons like right the natural  


[00:23:56] Brenda: consequence type thing Yeah Is there sort of a a sober culture within? 


The clients and the people that you work with because I know that is you know You see a lot of these days. are you sober curious and there are You You know, like she recovers and there’s these kind of communities that are growing is there Are you seeing a sober culture growing at all? 


[00:24:21] Aaron: so I’d say i’d say a couple things to that. number one is that So among a lot of the executives we work with, you know drinking socially or drinking at business meetings It’s so commonly accepted. So when You don’t drink, you’re looked at like you have a third eye, right? As lots of people are, that’s not necessarily unique to this population. 


but to answer your question, I think there is a movement. So I’ll give you like a good example. there are some, mutual help meetings that exclusively, target executives. So for example, they, they meet at the lunch hour, every hour, down on Wall Street. So there are some communities like that. And then there’s definitely a spectrum of different types of support, as you were alluding to, people who are not necessarily abstinence based, but maybe tend to be able to drink socially or, use more harm reduction approach. 


[00:25:23] Brenda: Because that would be, just from the outside looking in at, a celebrity culture or that it’s, substances are just part of the whole thing. It’s always parties and always, if you’re on tour or whatever it is, there’s just That’s just like air and so I can’t imagine how challenging that would be if you are trying to abstain and change your life around to that would very much stand out, I would think, in that in that culture  


[00:25:55] Lin: and a lot of people sometimes like they feel a sense of failure or sadness comes with sobriety, especially in the early stage of recovery. 


As Aaron mentioned a lot of business functions and events and client dinners and lunches Involve drinking so that kind of the fact that you know what I really do have a problem with drinking Especially in the early stage and you know having two terms with that. Oh, I don’t have control over drinking sometimes really hurts them  


[00:26:28] Brenda: Are there, strategies or tips that you would give to somebody and, and whether that’s an adult or a young adult who’s that is their culture, that is their, their group of people that they hang out with, any tips that you would give for navigating maybe that first stage where, after maybe a year or two, you’re fine, but when you’re just new into that, what, what could they do to. 


To not look like they’ve got that third eye.  


[00:27:01] Aaron: yeah, definitely. So number one, we always tell our clients, wherever you’re going, if you know there’s going to be alcohol, make sure that you actually have a reason to go. And I think what people find is that sometimes. when they were, for example, partying, they would go to parties when really the only goal, their goal there would be to get drunk. 


So number one is have a reason to go. now if you do have an important reason to go, a couple of good tools are, have a, have a mocktail or some kind of beverage in your hand. And. Therefore, people will be less likely to ask, are you drinking? Are you not drinking? if you have, if you’re holding a beverage, people just assume that you’re drinking and they, they won’t look at you funny. 


And also listen, if you feel uncomfortable at any point, if you feel triggered, know that it’s always safe to leave. And we always encourage people to have an exit plan, have somebody you can call, have a support system in place, and that can help you navigate those types of situations.  


[00:27:59] Brenda: Yeah, that’s really, that’s really good to, to think about. 


Do I even need to be there? That’s a, that’s probably the very first filter to put on. yeah, cause like you said, if the point is just to go hang out and get drunk, then, then what’s the point. So I know that you work with, you really have a focus on the whole person. as, as a whole. So just, not just dealing with the specific addiction, but the whole body and mind, and, and the family as well. 


So maybe you can talk a little bit about why that’s so important versus just, we’re going to have you come in and just talk about your addiction and then, you’re on your way.  


[00:28:39] Lin: Yeah, when I was in treatment center, I noticed that, some people get, some people improve various aspects of their lives while attending the exact same group therapy with same group of people, seeing the same psychiatrist, being on similar types of medication. 


And some people do get so much better and others still felt like something was missing. And, they still struggle with it. The senses of, low self worth, low self esteem, et cetera, et cetera. And I noticed that I closely observed and I always made my clients record what they ate, what they, how much they slept, the quality of sleep and kind of exercise. 


And I, I didn’t run any double blind study, but I always collected, information about when they’re not seeing me right outside of treatment centers. So when I, what I found, over and over with all different ages and, different gender, what’s that quality of food, quality of sleep, quality of exercise, your mood, outside of treatment center, outside of therapy room impacts, how much you recover and how much you improve. 


Quality of your life and what I also noticed was that, people go to meetings and what is their coffee and donuts, right? And people, people say, whatever get you sober. And I saw some people literally abstain from drugs and alcohol, but they became chain smokers or they thrive on, hugely artificially charged, beverages. 


All these energy drinks and they were not doing well. And they said, I, then they had sleep issues and they had to get on sleep medication while, maintaining unhealthy lifestyle. And we I always say we practice what we preach, self care is really important to us And that’s what we really encourage our clients and family members So when you I always say, i’m not even a person in recovery, but I need to meditate I need to sleep. 


I need to eat. I need to exercise and move my body to function well on day to day basis So I think it’s crucial  


[00:31:02] Brenda: Yeah. And so is that just part of when, when somebody is working with you, is that just part of your overall protocol is to incorporate education about that? Or how does that get woven into somebody’s treatment? 


[00:31:17] Lin: So first we collect, their history and current behaviors, And the patterns. And then we, personally come up with, we come up with a personalized plan for their nutrition. Usually people struggling with, substance use, they tend to overeat or undereat. That’s usually the case. Rarely we see people who are on top of their nutrition exercise while they’re heavily using. 


So that to especially sleep, a lot of people struggle with chronic insomnia. incorporating and practicing, bedtime. Hygiene to, any lifestyle changes that need to be made to support a healthy and wellness lifestyle.  


[00:32:05] Brenda: Yeah, I know sleep is, is really a struggle for, for so many and not just for the, the person who’s recovering, but for parents to, I work with a lot of moms and parents and they can’t sleep either. 


Cause they’re so stressed out about it. So it seems like nobody’s sleeping, like who is sleeping well these days. But, yeah, I think that that’s such an important. Aspect of it. And are your, are the people that you work with, do they get that? are they open to it or do they look at you like, what do you mean I need to work on my diet? 


Or does that, does that kind of make sense to them when you work with them like that?  


[00:32:42] Lin: Yeah. I think the reason why they’re drawn to our practice is because That we incorporate this holistic lifestyle it’s beyond medication and talk therapy So we don’t actually people come to us because they’re interested in this approach  


[00:32:59] Brenda: Yeah, yeah, because it seems like without that. 


It’s just a huge there’s a huge chunk of of life that isn’t being addressed where If you incorporate all of it, then it becomes a lifestyle versus just this one isolated thing like oh, I quit You know Drinking or I quit using this drug. It’s just a whole lifestyle change that becomes a healthier way of living. 


[00:33:22] Lin: Yeah. And we also saw a good chunk of population in treatment settings where yes, they, they abstain from drugs and alcohol, but they ended up getting, gaining like 20, 30 pounds pretty quickly.  


[00:33:34] Brenda: And  
 
[00:33:34] Lin: they were really depressed and they resorted being thinner and being more attractive to using drugs and alcohol. 


Yeah.  


[00:33:41] Brenda: Yeah. And they ended  


[00:33:42] Lin: up romanticizing that phase of their addiction.  


[00:33:46] Brenda: Wow. So interesting. It’s just so intertwined, it’s not, I think sometimes people think about, oh, if I have a child or young adult who’s doing this, that if I could just get him to stop drinking or, taking fentanyl or whatever it is, then everything would be better. 


But it’s really all so woven together. It’s really complex.  


[00:34:09] Aaron: Absolutely. As I say, like the, the drug or alcohol is not the problem. That was their solution to the problem. okay, what is the problem? If you take the drug or the alcohol away, there’s still going to be some issues there. So it’s important to really look at their overall lifestyle, their general behaviors, not only during active addiction, but also to prevent future relapse or to make sure that they don’t transfer their addiction onto something else. 


So like Lynn was saying, okay. Food is usually the next thing because it’s another thing you’re putting inside of your body. And as Lynn said, it can be a cyclical cycle where, okay, you gain weight and then you get depressed and then you relapse. So it’s really important to focus on the entire person. And I often use the analogy that recovery is like a puzzle. 


And there’s all these different puzzle pieces. So sleep is a puzzle, nutrition, fitness, meditation, and talk therapy, all these different pieces. And when you have all the pieces put together, your chances at sustained long term recovery are much better.  


[00:35:10] Brenda: What are some of the, you you, work with families a lot and what are some of the myths that you think? 


Parents in particular might have about when they are either suspecting maybe something’s going on with their kid, or maybe they’ve confirmed, they’ve looked in the room and found the empty bottle or found whatever it is, what are some of the things that you see parents either believing wrongly or, or doing that you would, you would recommend not doing. 


[00:35:43] Lin: so biggest, one of the biggest myths is that, it’s a phase they’ll grow out of it. But if your children, or young adult, adult children, have used any kind of substances repeatedly, and they even get to a phase that they hide it from you. they’ve gone, there’s an experimentation stage, but also there’s using stage, right? 


So if they have, dabble a couple of times, that’s experiments, that’s adolescents being, testing their boundaries within themselves with their parents, authorities, and experimenting and feeding into their curiosity, and that’s usually not the case. Usually they tend to use a lot more heavily and more extremely than their peers. 


from very early on people who end up developing substance use disorder and It complicates it even further if they live in states where marijuana usage is legal Because oh, it’s just alcohol and weed. It’s not like they’re doing real drugs but it does change your brain structure, such as your reward system in your brain and other things that, you know, Oh, they just use prescription Adderall for studying. 


So sometimes people, students themselves, or their parents may overlook the dangerous Long term side effects because it has a purpose. They use it for, they use it to achieve academic excellence, right? It produces positive outcome and is prescribed. They use it only when they need to study. So they may tend to overlook those types of side effects. 


Substances.  


[00:37:32] Brenda: Yeah, it is easy to justify. I know that as a, as a mom who did it many times, it’s very easy to justify either something that either is prescribed or yeah, it’s just, oh, this is just a phase and Is there a way that parents, because I think what everybody would like to avoid is getting to the point, where there’s very serious consequences, overdoses or whatever is there. 


Are there things that you recommend conversations maybe that, parents could have that. That are not, judgmental or critical or harsh, but maybe a way to just probe into what’s going on so that their kid feels like I can have a conversation about this instead of I have to hide this from my parents. 


[00:38:24] Lin: Yes. One of the crucial mistakes that parents make, we see that they always encourage their children to tell them the truth. And as soon as their children tell the truth, they react, extremely angry or their reactions are very exaggerated. children are like, Oh, you told me to tell you the truth. 


And I told you the truth. And parents freak out. And then they, it’s really important to keep the line of communication open. And ask questions, they will your children will tell you the clues instead of just saying I can’t believe you’re doing this I can’t believe you’re getting high. 


Are you? Like you’re freaking me out, they you ask questions. What are you attracted to? what are you drawn to what makes you want to get high ask about the circumstances the people that they surround themselves with They’ll tell you for example. Oh, it’s you can tell oh, everyone’s out there. 


I’m curious I want to fit in there’s peer pressure to I get less nervous when I get high or drink that see those are the clues that they share with you that What they’re getting from the substances, so when they tell you, their reasons mommy, I want to feel normal I feel more leveled out. 


I feel more even keeled when I smoke or drink And don’t interpret the results in the way Like interpret their comments in the way that you want to hear because But really listen to your child’s concerns and needs. That’s extremely important. I w  


[00:39:58] Aaron: I would also say that punishments and negative reinforcements often Do not work. 


Now, of course, as a parent, you do have to discipline your child. So it can be a fine line, but as Lynn was saying, it’s so important to listen to them and to try to have an open dialogue, express compassion, try to avoid shaming them. And I’d also encourage parents to normalize their child’s problem. So let them, let them know that a lot of people struggle with substance use, or a lot of people struggle with mental health issues and let them know that it’s okay to get help if they need it. 


And I’d also encourage parents to demonstrate empathy and compassion and love, try to have a dialogue with them, and try not to make it a one sided discussion. And just know that meaningful, loving, and respectful relationships with their child will support their recovery.  


[00:40:48] Brenda: Yeah, that’s, I think, the, the point about not, not shaming them. 


And, sometimes, I think, the, and I know my son felt this and so many kids do. It’s oh, there’s something wrong with me. There’s something wrong with me. But it’s you’re putting a highly addictive 


It’s really, I think that you can help them maybe reframe that to say, of course you’re having problems. This, you put heroin into your body or fentanyl or alcohol or whatever, but It’s going to do something bad to you. So let’s figure out how to not do that. Or, just being able to, like how you said that Aaron to normalize it a little bit so that it’s not this like shocking secretive thing. 


because then that just makes them feel even worse. Oh, I’m such a horrible person that I’m doing this, but, yeah. And, and keeping that dialogue open, I think. Now, especially with fentanyl being so prevalent, we just had horrible rash of overdoses here in Washington from some Oxycontin pills that are labeled as Oxycontin, but they’re actually fentanyl. 


And, and I think to me that just heightens the importance of what you’re saying is to just start having a conversation so that it doesn’t get to a point where you’ve, Kept it swept under the rug for so long. And now you’re in a situation where, maybe they still weren’t in the experimental phase, but they got a bad pill. 


Like the, the stakes are just so high now. are you seeing that there too, where, kids are starting, Maybe with pills instead of just, having a beer on the weekend. What are you seeing from a usage standpoint with your younger clients?  


[00:42:44] Aaron: Yeah, I think typically it does tend to start with alcohol and marijuana, but it can progress very quickly at a very young age. 


there’s just. Such easy access and socially at a young age, it can sometimes be accepted among friends, especially with social influences influences on social media or from celebrities. there’s a drug culture that is looked up to in some, to some degree, among, among our youth. So it can progress very quickly and. 


Obviously, as you said, there’s so many dangers because drugs are being mixed with other substances, be it fentanyl or actually in Connecticut, there’s been a huge problem of mixing drugs with also, a horse tranquilizer, which has led to a lot of deaths in Connecticut. the drugs are always evolving and it’s, it’s definitely something that children should be aware of. 


[00:43:40] Lin: Yeah, and also the teenagers that we have worked with it really opened my eyes to this whole drug culture and also social media and technology because back in the days, they have to travel to different neighborhoods to source their, their drugs. 


And you have, it was time consuming. You had to take risks, physical risks to get there. And these days they’re easily, easily accessible via phone, social media. So sometimes parents believe that, they’re safe and protected when they are over scheduled with extracurricular activities or they’re high conforming students. 


And a few teenagers that we have worked with, they, we started asking questions and, they, use this kind of discreet and fast delivery service. To get their drugs anytime anywhere and they had quite positive perception of their drug dealers because There were college students or there were college educated entrepreneurs quote unquote, they they had a very clever online marketing and very enticing deals for teenagers So it was not even like traditional ways to get drugs that was almost non existent. 


But there are a whole like this kind of, there was a whole different side of the world, even like drug dealing and everything was seen as entrepreneurship, like creative and lucrative ways to build your business. So that was very eye opening for us.  


[00:45:15] Brenda: Wow. Yeah. I was going to ask what, what you’re seeing as far as social media and how you think that’s impacting younger people, not only just with the accessibility, like you said, and delivery services, but what do you, what do you think is, is going on there when you have the amount of social media that we have now? 


is that something that you are running into that’s impacting people?  


[00:45:42] Aaron: Absolutely. There’s on one hand, yes, there’s a glorification of drugs where people are seeing their friends or seeing celebrities using drugs. So that’s one issue. But I also believe that Social media use is part of the reason that we’re seeing such a high rise in depression and suicide because, human interaction is so important in for our mental health. 


We, we need that. And people think they’re getting social interactions through social media, but really they’re just home and alone. So I think that’s part of the reason that we’re seeing a rise in suicide.  


[00:46:22] Brenda: Yeah. And that, you’re, you’re based in New York and right now, obviously we’ve had people cooped up at home for a very long time. 


are, are you, and you’re having to deal with this, I assume you’re probably doing video sessions now, but what are, what’s going on with that, with just the level of isolation that people are dealing with now? Yeah.  


[00:46:45] Aaron: Yeah, there’s so many more problems because of the pandemic, because of course, there’s the fear for your physical health or tragically having somebody, whose life was lost due to due to the pandemic. 


And then on top of that, the trauma from not even being able to spend time with them in the hospital, or, Be with them during their final moments. But then on another level, of course, there’s anxiety, especially financially for people who might not be working and worried about their finances. there’s a lot more domestic violence or just marital discord going on in the home because for the first time you’re actually faced with your partner 24 seven, whereas in the past, usually you, at least one of you were out of the home most of the day. 


so people are forced to talk about real issues. There’s increased stress levels because many are now homeschooling and juggling other life responsibilities. So there’s definitely an increase in a lot of mental health issues, as most of us are aware of now. And unfortunately, recent studies suggest that there will be a dramatic increase of rise in suicides and other types of death related to mental health, such as overdose or alcoholism. 


So it’s something. That we should all be aware of now so that we can help curb the problem moving forward.  


[00:48:06] Brenda: It’s really, it’s overwhelming to think about, what’s going on with that. And I feel like there was some progress being made with, some awareness and the opioid epidemic had finally hit the front lines. 


And now I feel like it just went back on the back burner when COVID 19 hit. So yeah, I, I, I also do hope that. that people are really aware of that. And, and just looking for signs, especially if you’re a parent and you’ve got some young adults now living back in your home, which a lot of people do. 


what are some of the things that people might look for? Cause I know, if they’re younger, you would say, Oh, their grades are slipping or they have, new friends that we’ve never seen before, but now you’re not. Probably going to have that because everybody’s at home. Are there things that you think people, parents in particular, could look out for with their adolescence or their kind of young adult kids who might be back in the house? 


[00:49:02] Aaron: So we always say, if you suspect there’s a problem, there’s probably a problem, and especially as a mother or as a father, usually your intuition is right. so if you do believe that there is some kind of problem going on with your, with your child, try, look, look, look into it more, have an open dialogue with them about what might be going on. 


[00:49:23] Lin: And like for right now, when you guys are all in the same house, any drastic changes in their appetite, their sleeping patterns, their phone usage, whether it’s too little or anything, I always anything that’s too little or too severe, too much, then that shows you where they are. So whether it’s like oversleeping, not eating to, just locked in the room and not wanting to engage or they seem, their personal hygiene, has been compromised. 


Those are usually good signs to look for.  


[00:49:56] Brenda: You mean we’re not supposed to wear sweats all day, every day? And it’s hard. That has to be hard because, we all are different now. where we are acting differently or behaving differently. So that, that can get tricky, I would imagine when you’re trying to assess whether something’s a little more serious than it should be. 


[00:50:21] Lin: Yeah.  


[00:50:22] Brenda: Yeah. Is there something, that you either hear all the time or a question that you get asked or scenario that you see that you would just say for once and for all, I would just like to, to say this or settle this question, because you’ve been doing this for a while and you’re, you’re both so experienced, is there something that comes to mind? 


[00:50:46] Lin: I would say, one thing, this is, it happens quite often, is that blaming, or blaming their circle of friends or assuming that they’re just part of the bad or wrong crowd. I said, your child chooses to be in that crowd. So if he or she is part of that crowd, they’re obviously attracted to the behaviors and the group norms and substance use that goes along with it. 


So instead of blaming, oh, it’s other children’s fault, it’s other kids that are problematic. Okay. really look into what is it about that group that could that quote unquote bad crowd that your child is drawn to? What are they really getting out of it? So exploring that kind of reflecting in an honest manner is important instead of just putting blame on, other Children. 


[00:51:35] Aaron: Yeah. And also on the topic of blame, a lot of parents blame themselves. So a common thing is what did I do wrong with it? they blame themselves for their child’s issues or their child’s substance use. of course, parents may, it is healthy for parents to, to look at themselves because there may have been incidences where maybe they caused some kind of trauma or issue, but at the same time, children may Be loved by their parents emotionally, financially, and every which way in between. 


But children sometimes develop issues for a variety of reasons coming from their environment, their friends, they surround themselves with, or many other issues that have nothing to do with the child parent relationship.  


[00:52:16] Brenda: Yeah, there is a lot of guilt. I know that moms in particular tend to spend a lot of time reflecting, what did I do, or if I would have just done this, or if I could have just done that, and that doesn’t really get anybody anywhere. 


So I appreciate you saying that. It’s, it’s an easy trap to fall into, I think, as a parent.  


[00:52:37] Lin: Absolutely. Yes, absolutely. obviously, there are some patterns that kind of contribute to, children being more likely to be exposed to some substance abuse behavior, such as like really poor structure, no parent, no rules or consequences in their house, extreme absence, of their parents presence in the house. 


But for the most part, I always say, nothing is really caused by one thing overnight. Rarely, it’s a combination of different factors that contribute to complicated issue It’s not always parents wrongdoing or you know the result of their parenting that Led their children to engage in substance use behavior, right? 


[00:53:22] Brenda: Yeah, no, that’s very true. Is there either a kind of a resource or a book or a podcast or anything that you tend to point people to if they come to you looking for some guidance, that you feel is a trustworthy. I always want to bring very credible and trustworthy resources to my listeners. 


So I always like to hear what, what you guys think about that.  


[00:53:51] Lin: Yeah, there are a few books that I really enjoy. and I think will greatly benefit from reading them and really open their, knowledge and concepts of addiction. Beyond Addiction, I love the book. Unbroken Brain, Unhinged, those are, alternative, steps to, alternative approach to 12 step and traditional abstinence model. 


Of treating substance use so A lot of families parents think you know abstinence 12 step if that doesn’t fit into that then What are we doing or children not benefiting from recovery? So I want people to be really well informed and well educated in this manner  


[00:54:39] Brenda: Yeah. And for parents, sometimes that’s all you can do, right? 


Is, is, is educate yourself while your child is, is going through what they’re going through is take that time to educate yourself because it is, it really is a family problem. And so I know I beyond addiction is sort of the, the Bible that I have, in, in our house. And if I hadn’t taken the time to read that. 


it, it didn’t, it didn’t necessarily help my son stop doing what he was doing, but man, did it help me learn how to talk with him.  


[00:55:12] Lin: Yeah. And at the end, that’s the most therapeutic and empowering thing that you could do for yourself.  


[00:55:22] Brenda: Because it feels yeah, you, you give yourself some power. 


I do remember feeling that way. And, and a lot of the moms I talked to is they say, wow, once I started learning some of this and, and, and, Finding other people to communicate with and support me. It just shifted the power a little bit. Like I felt like I had a little bit more power in this whole issue than just being a flailing, at the whim of whatever was going on in my house. 


So I think it is really important. cause sometimes you can’t do anything for your child, right? In the moment, it’s going to take time. So that is one thing that you can, you can do is you can, you can get educated yourself. I know there’s a lot of sort of negativity right now with the virus and everything. 


Is there anything that you are seeing in the treatment world or in therapy that you’re encouraged by or that you’re seeing really positive momentum in that, that you’d like to share?  


[00:56:18] Aaron: I think the treatment options are, there’s growing treatment options. So many years ago, it used to only be abstinence based. 


And now there’s a variety of treatments such as harm reduction, because, abstinence does not work for everyone. And some people might have a problem with one substance, but not another one. So for example, they might be able to, to drink socially, but have a problem with harder drugs. So that is very encouraging because not one size fits all. 


So I think a lot more people are being helped that way, as long as they know that there’s various treatment options open and, and not only on that spectrum, but also in terms of, as we were talking about before, treatment centers that really cater to certain populations, which is very important.  


[00:57:03] Brenda: Yeah, definitely. 


I until I came across your, your practice, I had no idea that, I guess it makes sense, but I, I didn’t know that there would be a place because that would be so incredibly stressful as a family in the families that you work with to worry about the risk and just having somebody who understands your world, would be so important because it’s not, it’s not the everyday world. 


And so I think that’s, a great. Thing for people to know is whether you’re high net worth or you’re a celebrity, there’s something for you, or maybe you have a child with autism or they’re, have Asperger’s, there’s, there’s resources for that. yeah, I think we are starting to see some more specialized types of. 


of therapies and treatments. And I, I would love to get your, your thoughts on medication assisted treatment. I, I know that that’s something that is debate. It’s still unbelievably debated, but, what are your thoughts when you have, when you have patients that are looking at medication assisted treatment as an option? 


[00:58:14] Lin: We always encourage, limited and cautious usage of medication, any type of cycle. traffic medications. and we never want to shame or judge, ways to get sober and ways to get well. So when medication management is temporary and necessary, and sometimes people need to be on it for a few years and, they’re, their addiction history, their personal history and background is very unique to that individual. 


So the, your recovery map may be very unique and personalized for yourself. So for example, we had a, we worked with this couple, husband got on certain medication for alcohol, and he was able to maintain complete abstinence after that. So he really wanted to, he really wanted his wife to take that specific medication to get sober. 


Unfortunately did not work for her and she already had a strong, opposition to that. So every, the reason why you drink or use drugs and how it impacted your brain chemistry to your personal life, your family life, it’s very different. not every beyond addiction says this all the time, different things work for different people at a different time. 


So any ways to get you well, we’re all, we’re supportive of medication management.  


[00:59:41] Aaron: Yeah, abstinence can be a great goal, but some people may need some help getting to that goal. so medication management is, is a great tool to help them along the way.  


[00:59:51] Brenda: I love how you said that it’s just not this, it’s not the same for everybody. 


And, and it’s great to see that you approach it like that, that every person has their own unique sort of blend of what’s going to work.  


[01:00:02] Lin: And additionally, if we really stigmatize, like we’re adding another layer of stigma by saying that, okay, this is not the right way to get sober for you. You’re not really following, complete abstinence and you don’t have a sponsor. 


You don’t go to meetings. So we are adding added, we’re adding, another layer of stigma. by something is really wrong with you. Not only you’re addicted to drugs and alcohol, but the way you want to recover is not the same as the, the gold standard model.  


[01:00:36] Aaron: Yeah. And if somebody is not completely abstinent, they’re so often turned away, from treatment centers even, or, it’s turned away from mutual help groups like Alcoholics Anonymous who are abstinence based. 


So if they’re on a medicated assisted treatment, they’re not considered sober. They’re often shunned. And that’s really sad to see because, sometimes that can result in them relapsing or not getting the help that they need.  


[01:00:59] Brenda: Yeah. As if we haven’t piled enough shame on top of you. Yeah. At this point, let’s just add some more. 


Like we wouldn’t do that with diabetes or cancer. Oh, that cancer drug didn’t work for you. you’re, you’re not a, you’re not a good cancer patient. I, it, it is. It’s really, it’s very interesting how, how we do that. So thank you for that. That’s really a good perspective. Is there anything that you guys are working on in particular, either an event or a product or a. 


Program or anything that you’d like to share with people.  


[01:01:32] Aaron: I just encourage people to go to our website at familyaddictionspecialist. com And on there you can see all the blogs that we’ve written all the our press page everywhere that we’ve articles that we’ve contributed to and Podcasts or videos that we’ve been on, that would probably be the best resource and on there you can get all of our social media, our contact information. 


So that’s familyaddictionspecialist.  


[01:01:56] Brenda: com. And of course it is very discreet and private, which I know a lot of people will appreciate, you know how to do the famous backdoor for people if they need that,  


[01:02:09] Lin: Yes.  
 
[01:02:10] Brenda: That’s great. Thank you so much for providing this really interesting perspective and all of your thoughts and just so genuine and, and helpful and, and caring. 


I, I really appreciate it.  


[01:02:24] Aaron: Yes. Thank you so much for  


[01:02:25] Lin: having us. Yeah, it’s been such a pleasure and honor to be part of this.  


[01:02:29] Brenda: Thank you for listening in this week and as usual, I will put all of the resources and references. That Lynn and Aaron mentioned in the show notes. So you have those. And also if you are enjoying this podcast, it would mean a huge amount to me. 


If you would go into Apple podcasts and rate and review, it just helps more families meet, meet us. And find out what’s going on with the podcast and the community. And if you’re a mom who is wanting some support and you’re struggling with a child who’s going through some experimentation or maybe a full-blown addiction, please do visit us@brendazane.com slash the stream. 


That’s our private non-Facebook based community to support each other and get each other as healthy as we can while our kids are struggling. I will see you here next week.