Filling The Sober, Fun And Social Gap In Early Recovery, with Eve Goldberg

Hopestream for parenting kids through drug use and addiction
Hopestream for parenting kids through drug use and addiction
Filling The Sober, Fun And Social Gap In Early Recovery, with Eve Goldberg
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ABOUT THE EPISODE:
The time period of recovery between a treatment program and responsible, independent living is an incredibly tricky one to navigate. My guest today says this is especially true in New York City, where marijuana smoke drifts down streets lined with thousands of alluring bars.

After her son’s overdose death in 2014, Eve Goldberg founded BigVision, a recovery peer community in NYC that provides a social club of sober young people looking to separate themselves from temptations that permeate every corner of the city. 

Whether it’s with basketball tournaments, go-karting, half marathons, or trapeze classes, BigVision creates a cool, supportive social network for young adults in all stages of recovery.

In this episode, Eve and I discuss:

  • Our culture’s saturation with alcohol – even in athletics
  • How the stigma surrounding recovery made it hard to find a space for BigVision’s new headquarters and activities
  • The difference between therapy and therapeutic fun

EPISODE RESOURCES:

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Eve:
You can’t walk down the block without smelling weed. It’s everywhere. You can’t carry an open container, I don’t think, but you can just walk down. I see people on the sidewalk just rolling joints, lighting them up, smoking them, and it’s just like everywhere, everywhere, and you cannot avoid it. It would be, would have been so difficult for Isaac, you know, to, to get through that.
Brenda:
Hey, my friend, before I get into today’s guest, I want to check in because it is so important to slow down, take a breath. And ground yourself now and then. This is a grounding practice that I have to do often because there’s a lot of incoming stuff in my world and I know in yours too.
And if you’re not extremely intentional about staying focused and in control, it can get messy really quickly. So if you’re feeling rushed, if you’re running around and multitasking right now, just take a minute, pause the episode 
Eve: and breathe. It 
Brenda: is one of the absolute 
Eve: best ways to get centered 
Brenda: and find your footing.
I was so happy when I found my guest for today’s conversation, Eve Goldberg. And it’s not surprising that she is a mom who experienced the worst tragedy and loss when [00:02:00] she lost her son to an overdose in 2014. Because a grieving mom is often a very powerful mom who decides enough is enough and changes the world.
And in creating big vision, which is a recovery peer community in New York city, Eve is bridging the precarious timeframe when a young adult completes or leaves treatment. And when they eventually get their feet solid beneath them in a new, healthy, independent life. This is such a tricky time zone and nowhere could that effort be more challenging than in New York city.
With a pervasive presence and smell of marijuana, over 25, 000 nightlife establishments, I did look that up, and a cultural theme of more is more. You are going to love this woman and the conversation. I was so inspired and fired up by Eve that I even threw out the idea [00:03:00] of franchising her concept for Big Vision.
And while I am a little busy and I probably shouldn’t take on one more thing. Maybe you are in a place where like Eve, you’ve decided you are going to do something to help kids and families. And if so, be sure to head to the show notes because you can get Eve’s contact information and also check out big vision dot NYC.
to learn more about this incredible organization. And now here is our conversation. Enjoy.
Welcome Eve to HopeStream Podcast. I’m so happy to have you here. Um, I’m sorry that you are doing what you’re doing for the reason that you’re doing it, but it is so needed. I just, when I came across Big Vision, I was like, I have to. Got to get this woman on the phone. She sounds amazing. So thanks for taking a little bit of time.
Eve: Absolutely. [00:04:00] Thanks for having me. I, I’m always happy to speak to people in this world who, you know, we all get it. No matter what our, you know, experiences are, we’ve had similar experiences and we have an understanding of each other like nobody else does. And I also think it’s really important to share our stories with, uh, with people out there.
You know, it, it, it helps here. You realize that it just, it helps other people when we share our stories. So I appreciate you having me. Yep. Yeah. 
Brenda: Yeah. And it is true, isn’t it? Um, when you meet somebody who has this experience with a child, there is no small talk. There is no like awkward getting to know you.
It’s just like 
Eve: we get each other. We, 
Brenda: we know, um, what that’s like. So yeah, it is an instant bond. I want to talk about big vision for sure, but I would love to have you just give us a little bit of [00:05:00] your family story to whatever degree you want, um, just to give us some context for how you got into, uh, doing what 
Eve: you’re doing.
It wasn’t something I ever aspired to do, to start a non profit, certainly not. In memory of, of my child, um, I’ve been in a for profit business for 35 years. And my dad started this business, um, 70 years ago. So we’ve been doing this family business in New York City. We’re in the diamond business. Very different.
from the recovery and addiction world, couldn’t be more different. You should see the difference between my two offices of where I sit. It’s like, you know, the people that I deal with, it is very different, but it’s kind of, I’ve always been involved in charities, but I’ve always wanted, like, something that I could really kind of sink my teeth in, that would really have a lot of meaning for me.
And I never, that until, you know, Isaac [00:06:00] passed away. So, you know, I’ve worked with, you know, with my dad, with my siblings for many years, like I said, I’ve traveled the world. We’re in a very. Rarified business and it’s, you know, it’s great. And we bring, my dad always said, we bring happiness into people’s lives.
You know, I have two children, so I had Isaac first and then Beatrice, my daughter, Isaac started struggling when he was little, he had learning issues and he always had like irrational fears and, and just little things, not, they weren’t so little, but you know, he. I was always dealing with it. Maybe he had a little bit of ADD and, you know, I really didn’t want to medicate him.
So I really kept him off of that. I tried for years to use herbs and acupuncture and things like that. And it worked. And, you know, he was, he was, it was a great kid. He was funny. He was good looking. He was smart, you know, with his learning issues and had a lot of friends. It was a great basketball player.
So it was on his, you know, school’s basketball team. Like he just [00:07:00] really, but he always had this like, I don’t know how to, not self loathing, but like he never really loved himself. He didn’t see in the mirror what we saw. We saw, you know, Isaac, who was just sweet as could be and, you know, good person, never judged people, never like, he had all these friends that, you know, he didn’t, he didn’t ever associate with people because of what they had or their stature in life.
It was just like, you know, down to earth, you know, kids, like he was just. No judgment whatsoever, compassionate, great kid, you know, and then at the end of high school, he was on the basketball team, which I thought would keep him safe from drugs and alcohol because he’s an athlete. But sadly, like a lot of kids on the team were getting high and he started getting high when he was, you know, in high school.
And, um, and then when he went to college, it was really, really, you know, downhill. Um, and then, you know, he went in and out of treatment centers and, and he passed away in [00:08:00] 2014. Yeah. So it’s going to be 10 years, which is crazy. Every day seems, it seems like it would just happen. You know, it’s hard to fathom that, you know, you’ll never see a child again anyway.
So when he passed away, I, I sat Shiva, you know, we’re Jewish and we traditional, we sit, you know, for seven days in morning and people come and visit. Yeah. It doesn’t. It was crazy amounts of people coming. And I told everybody I’m gonna do something to make meaning ahead of his life. And they all, people said to me, I’m there, I’ll help you, you know, reach out to me, whatever.
And I would go to sleep at night and I took a, a yellow legal pad. I would write down the names of all these people. And then that day come, came when I came up with my idea and I called all of them and they came to my apartment and we had our. first meeting and that’s really how, you know, big mission was born.
I literally woke up one morning and told my husband, I have my big idea. And he’s like, what big idea? Like you need to be busy. Like you have, you have a business you’re running. You’re like, wait, what do you need this? What are you talking about? And I was like, no, no, no, no. I know what I want to do. And so that’s kind of how it was [00:09:00] born in a nutshell.
Wow. 
Brenda: It’s, you know, I’m always so inspired when I, I hear stories about parents like you that just, you get a fire in your belly about this. Um, and wanting to make a difference and, and having lived through many, many, many rounds of rehab and treatment and relapse. I know that time period. of just out of treatment, trying to get on their feet, trying to get stabilized.
And I’m imagining that you had seen that as well. Is that, was that a vision that you had that you were like, yep, that’s where I want to tap into? Or like what made you decide that 
Eve: was the, the vision of, of where you wanted to go with things? Well, it. The thing is when Isaac, um, was struggling and he went to different treatment centers, sober living, outpatient programs, I’m sure you know the drill, you know, all these different things.
[00:10:00] And they worked for a little bit, and then they don’t work any, I mean, they, for some people it just clicks, you know, and I always thought, oh, 30 days of treatment, and he comes home, we’re good to go, you know, and Isaac went to a treatment center, and they let him go at 28 days, because he begged them that he needed to get back to his paternity in school, which was what sent him to rehab in the first place.
That they, they said he needs to go back. He’s not really an addict. We don’t think he’s an addict. Five days later, he called me like cowering, like under the covers, like just saying, Mama, you got to get me out of here. He was back in a situation where everybody was drinking, he wasn’t ready for it, not even 30 days and then he needed to go somewhere else.
He needed to learn to live a different kind of life and he just went right back into where he was before. And so I never wanted to do anything with treatment. Not that I have anything against treatment. Treatment can be great, depending. on the person, if they’re ready for it, you know, the right place. It [00:11:00] really all depends.
There’s no like one size fits all with treatment. It’s not like, Oh, go to this place and you’ll be fine. And 30 days is just the beginning. And that’s when the work begins. And that’s what I recognized with Isaac because he came home and he was like, You know, when he wasn’t in school and he had gone to other treatment centers, he came home and he didn’t have a community.
And they said, Oh, you’ll find a community in New York of, you know, people like yourself. You’ll go to meetings. And they said, Jim, go to meetings, get a therapist and go back to school or get a job. And they didn’t say to him, find a community, find ways to have fun, find ways to. Find your passions and life like that’s for a 20 year old kid.
That’s not a life So, you know, that’s when I woke up. I said, you know, I know what Isaac needed. He needed this community He needed things to do like he would go at 10 o’clock at night 9 o’clock at night He would play basketball in these leagues and that like got him, you know about his endorphins going But once the league was once the game was over all them went out for a beer and he was [00:12:00] so early this recovery He couldn’t do it.
So that He couldn’t even find a, a pool of friends there. And so he would do all sorts of things, you know, to keep himself busy. He would put on six layers of clothing and run the stairs in our building like that. He needed that. So I said, I wanted to start something that would, you know, help these young people, you know, work out there.
Whatever it is, what they, you know, what Isaac needed was to work up a good sweat and keep busy and, you know, get his endorphins going and, and that really helped him when he was able to stay sober, but then he didn’t have anybody to really hang out with. And so that’s why I said, you know what, I want to start like a community, like a, a JCC or a Y where people can go, but it’s other people like themselves who are sober, who are, you know, not using substances.
They understand each other and it’s just a cool place where they can go and hang out and do, you know, do lots of fun things. So the first thing we did was one, we said, let’s just. We don’t have a place, so we just said, do a sober [00:13:00] activity. So we did a soul cycle class. We did go karting and people came and I was like, okay, I guess there was actually a need for this.
It wasn’t just Isaac. So that, that, you know, really helped me, you know, continue. And I realized that. I was onto something, you know, I had no clue. I didn’t know if anybody was going to, that’s, 
Brenda: I love that. Cause that’s exactly how I started as well. It was like, Oh wait, people are showing up. This is awesome.
This is right. 
Eve: Amazing. Amazing. Well, 
Brenda: and it’s so hard, I think for young people to, to, and I’ve heard you talk before about, um, really making a recovery, a lifestyle versus just. I’m in recovery, um, which I think we hopefully all know is different than sobriety, um, which to, you know, a lot of people feels like white knuckling through just not using.
I, and I saw my son struggle with this. It’s hard to find the cool guys or the cool, [00:14:00] cool girls. Like where’s everybody hanging out where you don’t go for beer after the game or like my son experienced when he was. It’s starting in a new lifestyle was like, well, yeah, everybody’s going hiking, but they get high first.
Eve: It’s like, what? 
Brenda: It’s so 
Eve: crazy. Crazy. You know, quick example, we decided to, as Big Vision, to get a group together and do a run. It was a 10K. Oh no, it was a half marathon and we got people, you know, to come and, and we set up a booth there and, you know, we’re telling people about what we did and we had 10 people running.
And what the, it was 7 a. m. What’s the first thing that landed people when they finished the run? A beer. They were serving beer. I was like, are you kidding me? So now you 
Brenda: obviously grown. Um, you have an actual physical space, right? Where people 
Eve: are hanging out. Well, not [00:15:00] quite yet. We have the space. We purchased a space.
So we looked for years. My husband and I look for a space to rent. And we had a small office, and if I tell you, in this tiny space, it was probably 500 square feet, if that much, probably less. We had events that we did, knitting classes, I remember we did like, for Halloween, we did like pumpkin carving, we did like little things, most of our events were on the outside.
And we moved into a space that was about a thousand square feet and we were able to, we did a comedy night there and like we, we did as much as we could, you know, we did like a friend’s giving dinner and we did all knitting class, all sorts of things. And then we, we just for a while stopped looking for a space.
And then my husband got a call from this broker that we had talked to years ago. And she said, um, and by the way, the reason we didn’t ever take these bigger spaces, cause we were pretty much rejected. By all of these landlords who were very like, you [00:16:00] know, understanding, compassionate when it came to my story.
And then when it came to actually having us there as tenants, they were like, well, we don’t think it’s, it’s, it’s right for your use. And I, I’m like. What does that mean? You’d rather have, they said, we’d rather like rent it to a gallery because, you know, we needed to be quiet. I said, there are going to be no wild parties here.
If I tell you, you’re not going to have people drunk on the street. You rent it to, you know, an art gallery. They’re going to have a lot of parties and it’s possible you can have smoking and drinking and they’re going to be spilling outside. The neighbors won’t be happy. We’re not doing that. It didn’t matter.
They, people had this, this idea in their mind of an attic. Such a stigma. We, it was so upsetting and you know, I would have bought it, but I said, I don’t want to be there. They don’t want us. And they’re going to be looking at, at all of our, you know, community members sideways like that. I’m like, don’t need them.
Anyways. That’s why we gave up looking. And then this woman reached out and she said, I have this space. It’s actually zoned for community use, so you can’t be rejected, but it’s to [00:17:00] purchase. So I said to my husband, we’re not purchasing it. It’s just that we don’t have the money. It’s not happening. He said, let’s just go look at it.
So we went to look at it and I, it has 3, 000 square feet indoors, a thousand square feet outdoors. It’s got its own entrance. You know, you don’t have to go through another building or anything. It’s like below street level, but has a lot of light trees in the back. I just said to my husband, when we walked through this place, I said, yeah, we got, you’re right.
We got to buy it. And then we figured it out. And, you know, we’re able to purchase the space, so we’re in there now, and we’ve done some small activities, but we have a big, you know, capital campaign going on now. We need to raise the money in order to really build it out to be like a clubhouse and be what we want it to be.
We have a plan, we have, you know, the designs and everything, and we’ve already raised some money. There’s a lot of naming opportunities there. And, uh, it’s… It’s going to happen, you know, so it’s just a matter of time now before we start the work. We need to get [00:18:00] the permits and approval and everything. So it’s really exciting.
This was the dream from, from day one. It’s what I want. I mean, crazy that I didn’t think it was going to really happen, but it’s, it’s happening. So it’s really exciting.
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Brenda: We obviously believe in the power of community and we do that for parents, but there’s such a gap in the system for 
Eve: young people 
Brenda: to be able to have that space to hang out with each other. And I would imagine, are most of them coming from a Uh, like a post treatment environment, or what’s the mix that you have, kind of, of folks and ages and all that?
Eve: Well, the ages are 18 to 30, but we’re not, it’s nobody under 18. Um, but we don’t have, we’ve had people who may be in their mid, you know, 30s up to 35, whatever, because we don’t want to throw people out if they’ve been there for a while. It’s like, We’re not going to tell them they can’t come. I mean, I’m not going to have like 50, 60 year old men there with, you know, 18 year old girls.
It’s uncomfortable for [00:20:00] social activities. So, um, but they come from post treatment, some are in outpatient programs, some are in these, um, therapeutic communities in and around New York City. So they’re still, like, they’re living in these centers, I don’t know what to call them, in these houses. Um, and you know, they’re monitored.
Sometimes they have to come with a, with a counselor, um, but it’s a mix, you know, and then we have people who, you know, been in recovery for a number of years who are doing really well in life and, you know, and they still come and then, you know, we had someone come the other day who has not, I haven’t seen him in a couple of years and, you know, I always worry and it’s, it’s, it’s, you know, cause I know a lot of them, I don’t know all the people that come, I don’t go to every event.
But, you know, he, he came, you know, number of years ago and he came back now cause he’s, he was doing really well and his father passed away and from alcoholism and he was just like really like having a tough time. He goes, you know what? I said to myself, no, I need to go to a big vision [00:21:00] event. And I was so happy to see him.
Like it just made me really warm my heart because, you know, I didn’t know what had happened to him. And, you know, he became a yoga instructor and he’s like doing well, but still struggling. Cause you know, I mean. Whatever. Two years is a lot, but it’s not a lot and, and things trigger you. He loses his father, you know, and it’s tough times.
So, you know, we get a lot of people that come back and he’s, you know, working now. He’s, you know, we, we, it’s, it’s such a mix of people that we get, we get people who just find us on, uh, you know, on the website or on a social media and just, they’re looking for something. They’re Googling sober activities.
Yeah. So, 
Brenda: yeah. Hopefully by that keyword, right, you got that, you hopefully you got that locked up on Google. Um, I, I’m just. Yes, I’m thinking about, um, you know, Manhattan and how that could be a really great place to be sober, but also a [00:22:00] really challenging place because every, I mean, every other place you walk by is just really cool bar or, you know, some, there’s just, there’s so much there are.
Do you think that presents an extra challenge to, to the people 
Eve: there? It’s, it’s, it’s very challenging. So when Isaac was, had, I don’t know, a month or two, um, of, he was in living, in a sober living in New York City, and we were going, and we, it was right near my apartment, and, and very sadly, I couldn’t even, I, I, we had, well, after what we had gone through, I couldn’t even allow him to come to my apartment, I didn’t, hadn’t really, he hadn’t really regained my trust, you know, as sad as that was, people couldn’t understand it, but I just, I couldn’t, you know, I, we needed our distance and so he’s living in this sober living and um, it makes me sad to say that I have to tell you, you know, cause you never know.
Obviously this is what you’re working on. You never know as a parent if you’re actually making the right choice. I have no [00:23:00] idea. One choice was better than another. You know, you never know. You do, you do what you think is best at the time. But anyway, I said to him, let’s go out to dinner because we were a few blocks away from each other.
And we must’ve walked for an hour till we found a place to eat. That didn’t, it was in the summer. So everything had a huge bar scene spilling out into the street. And we finally landed on this little sushi place. There was like, you know, seats for like 10 people. We sat at the sushi bar and had dinner.
Cause everything was, he was so early in his recovery, everything was a trigger for him. And now in New York City, I have to tell you, you, I, you can’t walk down the block without smelling weed. It’s everywhere. You can’t carry a, uh, a can open container, I don’t think, but you can just walk. I see people on the sidewalk, just rolling joints, lighting them up, smoking them.
And it’s just like everywhere, everyone, you cannot avoid it. So I think it would be, would have been so difficult for Isaac. You know, to, to get through that, um, I’m sure [00:24:00] it’s, it’s tough. It’s not an easy, it’s not an easy place, but you know, there are sober, you know, non alcoholic bars that are opening up.
But I gotta tell you, I keep saying, I’m talking about alcohol. Alcohol is just, it’s very trendy now not to drink. I’m sorry to put it that way. I know it’s, it’s healthy. People are all about wellness and so a lot of people are choosing not to drink. And I don’t want to get caught up as Big Vision in just being associated with the non alcoholic world, because that’s not, that’s a part of it.
It’s a part of it, and there are people, like I spoke to someone yesterday who’s amazing, and she said to me she was a, you know, was a blackout drunk just drinking wine, but not just drinking wine, but she was a blackout drunk. She said, and, you know, that was her issue. She never needed drugs, but that was, that was her thing.
So, and that’s terrible also. Um, but with these young kids. Today, you know, the drugs are so deadly, you know, and, um, it’s just, it’s a different time with the, [00:25:00] the, even the weed today, so powerful. I mean, it’s, it’s insane. And they, they’re changing the laws now that you can’t drug test people at work. I mean, it’s just like, people can just vape or get stoned at lunch and show up to their office.
It’s just. It’s kind of the Wild West here, I gotta tell you, it’s, there’s, you know, I keep, like, writing letters and op eds and things about it because I’m just incensed by it. I think it makes it, for our community and for these young kids, it makes it okay, especially for younger kids. It’s like, what do you say to a little kid walking down the street when they go, what’s that smell, mom?
What is that? You know, I mean, it’s disturbing. It 
Brenda: is. I was, I was there in New York a few months ago and I noticed that, and it’s, it’s the same here in Seattle, but I think, um, it’s just the concentration obviously, right? There’s so many more people there, and I was really shocked by it, just the constant smell.
And I also thought, because I remember driving around with my son when he was just out of, um, a treatment program. And just [00:26:00] you’re driving down the street here in Seattle, at least there’s billboard after billboard after billboard. for cannabis shop and this and that. And I just feel so much empathy for anybody who’s trying to live a lifestyle where you’re not engaging in that when it is so, like you said, it’s just so, um, enticing and it looks glamorous, right?
Like especially in New York and you walk down the street and the beautiful restaurants and It’s got to be really hard. So I imagine, um, I, I would love to have you just share what you see in the young people that start coming to your events and hanging out. And do you see any sort of like a transformation with them as they become a little bit more, you know, embedded in, 
Eve: in your community?
Totally. I mean, you know, we’ve, I bring knitting up as an example, right? Because we, we, we did [00:27:00] at the, it was kind of one of the first activities that we did because my mom was a knitter. I was a knitter. And I remember saying I wanted to bring my mom into like big vision in some way. She’s 93. She’s great.
You know, and she still knits. And I just thought that would mean something to her to like be involved in this. So anyway, we started these knitting classes. And we would have people, like, I had this one young woman, for instance, who’s amazing, doing amazing now, she lives in St. Louis, she’s got a job, finished school, like, she’s fantastic, and she stood downstairs in the lobby of our building, she said, for like an hour, contemplating whether she should go upstairs, because she was so nervous about going, it was like her first activity, and she just, You know, it’s hard to go to something alone, let’s be honest, even as adults, you know, you walk into a room, you don’t know anybody, it’s, it’s a very tough thing, very challenging.
So a lot of people have told us that they’ll follow us for a very long time before they’ll [00:28:00] actually show up. They know about us and, but they, they don’t have the courage to come, which we’ve started now offering to meet them in advance so that they feel more comfortable. Um, yeah, but yeah, you know, just so they walk in the room and they see a familiar face.
Anyway. So Annie. Um, finally came and she, you know, she’s a lovely, lovely woman and that was a young woman and it was her first event and then she became, she ended up working for us for a while also because, you know, she, it just meant so much to her and she credits Big Vision for really helping her. You know, get, get in, in into recovery because she was really, really struggling.
And so she’s a great example. And, and when we would have people, like I had one guy who came to an event, it was, um, improv workshop that we did. And when we were done, everybody kind, kind of went around the room to talk about how they felt when they first walked in and afterwards, and he said, I don’t think I’ve ever [00:29:00] had fun or laughed without having used.
And, you know, it was so fun, everybody was just relaxed, like, it, it, we, it, we make it like a family, we make it just very cool and relaxed, just show up, you don’t, it’s not therapy, it’s not therapy. So you don’t have to talk about anything, like, we get it, you don’t, you don’t want to be in therapy, there’s no therapy, this is social, this is non, I mean, it’s therapeutic.
But it’s non clinical. So, we’re very just like, come, have fun, find your passions in life. You know, we’ve done like songwriting classes, we’ve done rock climbing, we do trapeze school, we do, I don’t know, we’ve done like just so many different things, you know, arts and crafts related. Like, you know, they have like sip and paint or whatever.
So we do it with non alcoholic drinks. You know, but it’s hard to find a place, it’s hard to find, we’ve done bowling, it’s hard to find a bowling alley that doesn’t have a bar. So we find, we find a [00:30:00] bowling alley with the most unattractive bar in the back that nobody wants to go hang out. Not the cool bars, and that’s where we’ve gone.
But, you know, people like really. Um, we see a difference is people, somebody who I saw the other night, we went to a show and like this one guy, literally when I first saw him, like he looked haggard, you know, he, he was very, he was so early on, he just, you know, gotten, you know, off of, of drugs and he, he, he looked and I saw him like it was two days when I saw him, we went to the show together.
So, you know, I watch these people, these guys who’ve been coming for a long time and Some of them have relapsed and they come back and, you know, I hate to see them relapse, but we all know it’s part of this disease. So he relapsed and then get back on their feet and they come back and I see like this vibrancy.
I see the light in their face. They come at the beginning and it’s like, You know, they’re just struggling, you know, and then you just kind of [00:31:00] see like a light. I don’t know how else to explain it in the confidence that they didn’t have before and they feel part of something and it’s just a beautiful thing.
It’s really gratifying. I got to tell you, I love, I love selling diamonds, but at the end of the day, This gives me weight. Don’t tell, you know, my family, they’ll probably hear this, but there’s nothing more gratifying than helping somebody. I’m sorry. It sounds cliche. You know this. It might sound cliche, but when you’re helping other people, it’s, it gives you this, this sense of fulfillment that nothing else can give you.
It 
Brenda: absolutely does. And I think it’s so critical because what you, the, the place at which you are intervening is such a fragile place in somebody’s life. And I think what you’re doing is giving them a really strong connection, a really strong bridge to walk across to say, Oh, this is how I can do life in new way, in a really fun way.
If they can’t see, Hey, What it is that [00:32:00] they are going toward, it could be really easy to just give up, so what you’re giving them is A real taste of a really cool life, you know, in a way that’s going to be healthy for them. So I don’t know, Eve, I think you’re going to have to start franchising this model because 
Eve: I’d love to.
franchise. 
Brenda: I’m ready. In all my spare time. Yeah, 
Eve: exactly. Exactly. Well, if you know of someone there. It might be, you know, we could have all these parents, you never know, somebody might want to do it. I’m thrilled to have it, you know, to start something in Seattle or any place else. I mean, it’s not that complicated to start.
It really is not that complicated. Um, well, and you have a template that we could follow for sure and for sure. All right. Can I take you from that? Oh, I would love it. I’d be so happy. I’ll come, I’ll come visit you in Seattle. Yeah. Come visit 
Brenda: me and we’ll go find a building together. 
Eve: Well, we could start just [00:33:00] renting a small place.
You don’t have to go to the building. It took a couple of years till we actually found the building, but you know, you never know. You have someone with the funding for it. That’s all you need. Right. You know, you know, like I said, I never. Never would have chosen to do something like this. Like, I love that you chose to do this.
Your son can see you doing this and your son, you’re doing it while he’s here. Like it makes me, I wish, I always say, like, I wish I could have started this and helped Isaac when he was alive. You know what I mean? But obviously I thought of doing, you thought of doing something, you had the chance to do it.
You know, you have the chance, which I think is incredible also. So good for you. Thank 
Brenda: you. Yeah. It’s, it’s a blessing. It was actually something that I couldn’t not do is kind of how I explain it. Like I just couldn’t not do it. Um, so well, I will let you round. I’m sure you have lots of things to do, maybe a knitting class or something, but I thank [00:34:00] you so much for joining us.
We’re going to make sure that there’s links in the show notes to big vision. People can come find you and we will see you. Hopefully in New York next time I’m there. I’ll come visit. Okay. That is it for today. If you would like to get the show notes for this episode, you can go to brendazane. com forward slash podcast.
All of the episodes are listed there, and you can also find curated playlists. there. So that’s very helpful. You might also want to download a free ebook I wrote. It’s called hindsight, three things I wish I knew when my son was misusing drugs. It’ll give you some insight as to why your son or daughter might be doing what they are.
And importantly, it gives you tips on how to cope and how to be more healthy through this rough time. You can grab that free from brendazine. com forward slash hindsight. Thank you so much for listening. I appreciate it. [00:35:00] And I hope that these episodes are helping you stay strong and be very, very good to yourself.
And I will meet you right back here next week.

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