The Final Fix: An Unflinching Documentary Investigating a Radical, 49-Year Old Technology That Could Change Everything We Know About Addiction, Treatment and Recovery

SPEAKERS: Norman Stone, Brenda Zane

[00:00:00] Norman: Another filmmaker with some experience, I got meeting him at a film festival, he said, come home and meet the wife. And this wife turned out to be an award winning, hugely respected female Scottish surgeon. So I went round for tea and there was a chap sitting next to me called Eric, and my girlfriend at the time was there as well. 


And we chatted on and took film and things. And this Eric chap was a bit monosyllabic, but. And when we left, my girlfriend said, That was Eric Clapton. I said, Calm yourself, of course it wasn’t. I know what Eric Clapton looks like, a handsome thin guy. And he was bloated and his hair was like a lollipop. And it turned out it was, and he was coming off. 


a terrible addiction to heroin that got him down to selling his last guitar. And I went back as soon as I could to visit again. And, sure enough, he’d come off and it didn’t quite make sense. It wasn’t drug replacement. It was this little thin little wires and a slow electric pulse behind your ear. It looks, if you’re listening to it in those days, a Walkman. 


[00:01:08] Brenda: Welcome to HopeStream. the podcast for parents of kids who are misusing drugs or alcohol, or who are in active addiction treatment or early recovery. I’m your host, Brenda Zane, fellow parent to a child who struggled. So I’m right there with you. If you’re enjoying the podcast and want to hang out with me and a bunch of other great moms after the epidemic. 


Episodes you can check out the stream. It’s a positive online space where you can get support and take a breather from the stresses of dealing with your son or daughter. Just go to the stream community.com to learn more. Now, let’s get into today’s episode. Hello friends. Welcome back. Today I finally get to bring you something that I have been researching and working on for a while in the background here that I know is going to give you a ton of hope. 


I also think it’s probably going to get you really fired up if you’re someone who’s passionate about finding help for your son or daughter or just for people in general who struggle with addiction. You’re going to hear about something today that effectively safely and quickly, like less than two weeks quickly, treats addiction from multiple substances, gets people off of drugs like opioids, heroin, meth, cocaine, and alcohol without withdrawal symptoms, with no medication, and I am guessing you have never heard about it. 


Wait, what? You’re saying? You’re thinking, did I just hear that right? Yep. It is called. NET, which stands for Neuroelectric Therapy, and it was invented by a Scottish surgeon named Meg Patterson 45 years ago. So if that’s what it can do, and it’s been around for that long, Why have you not heard about it? 


And why is it not being used in every city in the world as the bodies continue to drop from overdoses, suicides, and accidents from drugs and alcohol? when I came across this, I went into total detective mode. I did a lot of homework because you all know that I work really hard. only to bring you credible information and resources. 


And after a lot of review, a lot of digging, I felt that this was something that I had to get behind in a really big way and bring it to you. So you’re going to hear from Norman Stone, who is an acclaimed film director and producer from Scotland. He has two Emmys. to BAFTAs and he’s known for the movie Shadowlands, which is based on C. 


S. Lewis’s work. And Norman stumbled into this NET device and technology at a totally random chance meeting with Eric Clapton, which you’re going to hear him describe. And after years of his own personally funded research and investigation, He recently made a documentary about this technology called The Final Fix. 


And if you look at the reviews of this documentary on Amazon, here are some of the headlines. A ticking time bomb. Shocking and thought provoking. This could change everything for drug addicts. The documentary is narrated by Ewan McGregor and is very real, it’s very raw, it’s an investigation into NET and it follows five long term chronic substance users on their journey as they undergo a trial of this technology in a treatment center in Kentucky in the United States. 


Now before I share the conversation I just want to give you a heads up on two things so that you’re not wondering them the entire time that you’re listening because I know you will be. So the first is that NET is not currently available as an FDA approved treatment in the United States. But the good news is trials are starting soon. 


And so depending on how those trials go and how the FDA responds to them, it may be coming soon. And I will of course keep you posted here on those developments and I will be having future episodes with some of the people who actually work with the NET device. in that organization. They can’t speak right now because the trials, which is why I sought out someone else, but I will keep you posted on those developments. 


And then the second thing is that you’re going to be wondering is I got to watch this documentary. And unfortunately, it’s not available currently in the United States. It is in the UK on Amazon Prime. So if you’re listening from the UK, you can search the final fix and you will find it there. and I’m going to If you’re listening in the United States or somewhere else and you want to be notified when you can watch it and how you can watch it, you can go to my website, brendazain. 


com forward slash final fix. And there’s just an email form there. Just drop me your email and then I will send out an email when Norman and I work out a place for you to view it. If you’re a member of the stream, you can go to the post for this episode and share your thoughts and questions there. If you’re not yet a member of the stream, you can share your comments and thoughts in the show notes. 


They’re always at brendazane. com forward slash podcast, and then just scroll to the episode. Here we go. You may be frustrated. You may be a little bit baffled, but also I think you’re going to be very hopeful when you hear this conversation with Norman Stone. 


Norman Stone, welcome to Hope’s Dream. This is an Extra special episode because I was able to watch a film that you basically birthed into the world. I feel and it really has changed a lot for me about how I think about the future of substance use and addiction around the world, but especially here in the U. 


S. So thank you so much for making time.  


[00:07:28] Norman: Ah, my pleasure. I’m speaking from Scotland and loving every minute of thanking you in America. There you go.  


[00:07:33] Brenda: Yes, I know. I’ve never interviewed somebody in Scotland, so this is a first.  


[00:07:39] Norman: You’re spreading, you’re spreading. I am,  


[00:07:41] Brenda: yes. It’s now a truly a global podcast and I do have listeners from all over the world. 


But yeah, I did not know you were saying just a few minutes ago that Scotland has such a bad problem and I did not know that.  


[00:07:52] Norman: It’s the worst in the world, worse than you guys, unfortunately. per capita, obviously we’re a small country, but even in England, there isn’t a wall or a river or anything that makes a difference between when you’re in Scotland, when you’re in England, it’s an ocean line. 


And yet for some reason, which I could explore with you for some reason, they are three and a half times worse than England, which is literally just a line on the map. Now that is extraordinary and something I, since I live in Scotland, I care about very much.  


[00:08:24] Brenda: Yes, that’s incredible. I think we talk about this often on my podcast is that, that addiction and substance use is so important. 


So nondiscriminatory and it really doesn’t care where you live, how much money you make, how educated you are. It just, it grabs certain people. And it’s very interesting though, that your Per capita is so high for such a small place, and I think it’s to do with a lovely place.  


[00:08:54] Norman: Yes, it is. And it is gorgeous. 


And the people are lovely. I think that the Scots for whatever makeup in their DNA have always enjoyed getting drunk and doing wild things. That’s what they’re known for. And unfortunately, in the way that drugs are pumped around at the moment, they’re sitting targets. But I also think it’s how you deal with it. 


I have A battle really going on with the government who You may not know, but they are refusing to watch even one frame of my film. And I’m not some wacko, I’ve got Emmys and BAFTAs and things, but they won’t watch a frame of my film because it goes against their rather ineffective policies at the moment. 


There are three P’s that you should be aware of that stop real advance, certainly in Britain, and I think I live a lot of time in America as well. And that is power. Profit and prestige. Those three things I think I would like to eradicate from my life. The, the, the objections that are made, especially the profit one in America. 


I’m afraid that’s a killer, but you have to deal with it, this terrible scourge as best you can. And you should look at all the options. That’s what I’m saying.  


[00:10:11] Brenda: Absolutely. Absolutely. let’s get into that. But first, if you could just give us a quick, one on one on who you are, your background, your work. 


I know a little bit because I’ve been doing my sleuthing, but if you could just give us a quick background, who you are, what you do for a living, and then we’ll dive into a little bit more specifics about NET.  


[00:10:31] Norman: Okay, I’m a filmmaker. Basically, that’s all I’ve ever done. My mother used to say, when are you going to get a real job? 


And I’m still here. And I love telling stories with pictures. I’m probably better known for dramas. I did things like Shadowlands about CS Lewis years ago and all that sort of thing. But if there’s a story, I love to make people feel so much they can’t help but think. That’s what somebody said about me once, and that’s true. 


I think it’s so easy to hide. It’s like eating chakra. You’ve got to eat something other than chakra, so you’ve got to get down to the nitty and the gritty and eat proper food as well. And I think the documentaries are a particularly good example of what intrigues me. If there’s something that needs exploring, exposing, or flagging up, It does get my juices going. 


So I, I got involved in this one early and I’ve never been able to forget that this exists. So I’ll slip into the NET part of it. I was finishing my film school. I was at film school for a long time and I wanted to get a job. And the only place around at that time you could legitimately do it was the BBC. 


And another filmmaker, an old guy, actually appears in the film. Another filmmaker with some experience had got meeting him at a film festival, he said, come home and meet the wife. And this wife turned out to be an award winning, the Queen gave her the MBE, Members of the British Empire, hugely respected female Scottish surgeon. 


I had no idea. So I went round for tea, and there was a chap sitting next to me called Eric, and my girlfriend at the time was there as well. And we chatted on and talked film and things, and this Eric chap was a bit monosyllabic. But, seemed to be a really nice guy. And when we left, my girlfriend said, That was Eric Clapton! 


I said, Calm yourself, of course it wasn’t. I know Eric Clapton looks like a handsome thin guy. And he was bloated and his hair was like a lollipop. And it turned out it was! And he was coming off A terrible addiction that got him down, heroin, that got him down to selling his last guitar. And I went back as soon as I could to visit again, and, sure enough he’d come off. 


It didn’t quite make sense. It wasn’t drug replacement, it was this little, thin little wires and a slow electric pulse behind your ear. It looked, if you were listening to it in those days, a Walkman, or something like that. The man who I met was the filmmaker, the old guy, was married to this. And he said, have you ever thought, would the BBC be interested in this, do you think? 


And here’s me fresh out of college. But I had a connection and I went to them and where did my pitch go? let me see. It went something like this. Eric Clapton, Eric Clapton, Eric Clapton. And they said, yes, go and make a film. Because they’d seen my work and they were fine about that. So I did. And he never appeared in the film. 


I got so engrossed in what was going on. We did take an addict from the streets of London. And I said, look guys, I’m gonna tell the truth here. I hope you know what you’re doing asking me to make a film. Because I’m not going to fiddle anything. I’m an honest Joe. And that man, it worked well, that guy came off, and many decades later, he’s still off today, he lives only about an hour and a half from my door, it turns out, I recently discovered. 


And that is exceptional, because it only lasted 10 days, this treatment. What the claim is, let’s get to the nitty gritty, what they claim is with this little, but very well studied and worked out electronic pulse, that took years working on it, but just tap, tap, tapping. behind your ear, basically, that you can go to sleep with the thing on that resets your endorphins and enkephalins, the natural body’s painkillers. 


So without adding any other drugs in, Your body gets stimulated to mend itself in that, in the old days, that was 10 days. It’s now down to five, five to seven, depending on the drugs. And I still, after all these years, because I came back to make this big film after doing so many other films, and I thought I’m going to be really tough. 


I still got goosebumps when you watch up close and personal and the camera watches with you. And these guys are alarmed at how quickly they are back. Five days. No cravings after that. And no cold turkey. Now, I thought, Florence Nightingale lives. Here we are. We can do a great medical thing. And when that one came out, the first film I made, I thought I’ll be welcomed with open arms. 


This is going to be the answer. And all the medical Connections, in crowd, hierarchy, closed ranks. Nobody wanted to know. Nobody would give money for it to be looked at. And that was way back. And it’s been more of the same lately. My government in Scotland will not watch a frame of the film. It disagrees with their policies. 


People from even the FDA, God bless their crooked little hearts, even the FDA have had to be drag kicking and screaming. They are going to be doing a big, very big RCT, which is a random control trial in the next six months. But it’s reluctantly. And why is it reluctantly? Brenda, I’ll tell you why. It’s because there’s an awful lot of people doing very well in the status quo. 


Thank you very much. Yes. In those three Ps. The big one for America at the top of the three Ps is profit. Yeah. I don’t know whether you’ve been following the Sackler sad story. It’s been that, that result has been coming up for the last few months. It’s wicked. It’s wrong. And it’s broken down, fallen human nature that is allowed to get away with it. 


If you’re rich enough. I could keep you for at least three days telling you some of the experiences I’ve had with doors being slammed without reason and all that. All I’m doing, I’m not a medical person, I just want to tell the truth on film. It’s very difficult to do that when I’ve had some of the reactions I’ve had. 


And it is, dishonest most often. Sometimes it’s legitimately, I mean it sounds nuts doesn’t it? You put in this little headset and ting ting tap tap tap tap and in five days you’re back better than normal. That’s the thing that gets me every time. They’re real bright eyed and bushy tailed. Now that doesn’t mean they don’t need rehab. 


It doesn’t mean they don’t need to be taught how to walk without limping again. They’ve been in a dark place for a lot of time. There’s a lot of difference I think, as a filmmaker, watching this, there’s a lot of difference with having people who are going through the normal cold turkey and that horrible, horrible things, even with drug replacement, and don’t talk to me about methadone and suboxone, all those things, yes, I understand, and they, some get off, bless them, and they go there, but there’s a lot of difference between that and having someone who is happy, easy, relaxed, not hurting, knowing their own mind, you I mean, that alone is an acceleration, and they’ve got now brain imaging that shows what happens when you’re taking this method, and when you’re not, much to some of the critics chagrin, it shows it. 


And I’m not wanting to sell this thing, I’m wanting the right to be honest. And if anybody wants to talk about the medical details, I can pass you on to people that I asked about the medical details. But what I’ve seen It works. People don’t want it to work if they’re making a lot of money off its power and prestige. 


And I don’t think we should let that stop us telling the truth in films. I think you say, look, oh, you know what? at the end of this film, you may not have noticed it very much. After all this film, it lasts about 90 odd minutes. Graphic and cutting stuff, of course, but at the end, what is the big battle cry that I insist goes out at the end of that film? 


What is the big hammer blow of Thor that will smash this strange situation open? Do you know what it is? You may remember it. It’s Shouldn’t we look at this?  


[00:18:46] Brenda: Yes.  
 
[00:18:46] Norman: That’s it. Whoa! Steady on, sir. That’s, that’s really rough. Shouldn’t we look at it? Oh, no. And that’s what happens. All I’m saying is, pick it up and look at it. 


I could go on. I feel, I have this timer in my brain. I’m gonna stop myself now. I just am a little Both frustrated and excited that there is something that at the very least should be part of the toolbox. Being stopped and lied about and all sorts of stuff. And I will just mark my time and keep on being honest about it until something changes. 


[00:19:20] Brenda: Yes. there’s so much there. I think, one of the reasons why I reached out to you first, and I am also going to be talking with Owen Fielding because he’s more on the, like you said, the medical side of it. he can’t talk right now because of the, the trials that they’re setting up. So for listeners, just be patient, but we’re going to get him on as well. 


The reason I really wanted to start with you is because you don’t have, Stake in it, you have a personal like passion for it, but you don’t have a financial stake. If this thing turns out to be the answer to, getting people off of these drugs, you’re not going to be getting rich from it. 


So I just felt like that was a really good perspective to have. And you were able to see during making of the film, the ins, the outs of it. I used to be in advertising. I made a lot of commercials. I know the magic that you can do with film. And. I don’t think you made any magic with this film. I think the magic came from the device, at least when I was watching it. 


It was absolutely unbelievable.  


[00:20:25] Norman: And I should say this, it’s not just me. My, co producer’s a man called. Tim Neves, he came in and also has done a lot to help and the whole thing, we had no real money at all. three years without pay isn’t fun, but we had people were doing things for nothing or they were doing it for half price or they were doing just because they said this needs to be talked about. 


And I would repeat that this needs to be talked about and behold, here we are talking about it. We are  


[00:20:52] Brenda: talking about it. We absolutely are talking about it. So I think it’s just so fascinating that you stumble upon this. This tea party with Eric Clapton, and I know in my research that Meg Patterson, who is the, the surgeon that you speak of, she was getting the same response, right? 


She wasn’t getting anybody saying, Oh my goodness, we need to roll this out. So I believe, and you can correct me if this is wrong, that she was able to find rock stars basically who were. dealing with addiction and their managers wanted to get them off and so she would have them to her house.  


[00:21:25] Norman: It’s not quite as you put it, she didn’t manage to find, they managed to find her. 


I remember in those early days when she was sure that this applied even wider, this electronic stimulation of the brain, just tap, tap, tap, no pain, nothing. But she was sure it worked in other areas too. Would it work in gambling? Would it work with other issues? And she was top of her tree. Everyone I talked to about her that first film said, Oh, she’s wonderful. 


She’s just such a brilliant angel of a woman in science. We should have more of those. Yes, yes, yes. But they wouldn’t do a thing to inquire and they wouldn’t let her do anything. It should be psychiatrists that drew with drug addicts. even an empty ward for the National Health Service in Britain, there were lots of empty wards. 


She said, just give me an empty ward. No. And she was a top of the tree medical professional. Did you hear how she discovered this?  


[00:22:20] Brenda: I remember that she was testing it on something else and then realized that some of the participants had been addicted.  


[00:22:26] Norman: She’s the woman I’ve ever met with the most integrity and she had a heck of a lot of skill and reputation. 


And she was also good heart. She was working in a charity hospital, just because that’s what the people needed. Charity hospital in Hong Kong, where the poor people needed help and no one was giving them it. So she worked in this charity hospital, good for her. And, China opened its doors. I was able to medicine, western medicine, and said come and look what we can do. 


And they had so many of these poor characters in Hong Kong, cramming to get into the hospital and the beds, and things. that they said look, if we could get electronic anesthesia, if you like, acupuncture anesthesia, is what they called it in China. We could actually give them these little needle things and they would need no post operative recovery. 


They wouldn’t need to hang around in the wards. They could just get them through more and more. And a colleague of hers went over and had to do it and it worked well. And they were getting through far more people, but opium has a big root. In Hong Kong, and that is their problem, so the majority of the poor people that came in were hooked on opium. 


And she went, with post operative check ups like she was told in her training. She was the youngest Scottish female doctor ever. And she would say, how are you doing? And they say, ever since you used the needles, doctor, we don’t smoke opium anymore. And her reaction was to pat them on the head and say, very good, very good. 


Next. And then next. And then next. And they all kept saying it until she said to me once, she said, even with my Western skepticism and medical training, I had an Edinburgh. She said, I had to admit something physiological was going on.  


[00:24:06] Brenda: Right.  


[00:24:06] Norman: And she started to look into it. She took some poor little white kids, rich ones, that had been hooked and tried it with them, and it worked again. 


And she thought, hang on. We may not know what’s going on, but that’s the heart of medicine. Let’s discover. And that was a while back now. Goodness me. Yes, it was. But that’s when she came over to England. And started to explore it, one or two people helped, and she found it worked again. And that’s when I turned up to do a film, and frankly, it was surprising. 


I wasn’t quite ready for what I saw, which was just simple, few days, and I know what it was like. Even then, I knew what it was like. Just watch people come off cold turkey. There’s no comparison. And they stay off. There’s this guy around the corner from me. an hour and a half away. He’s been off decades with that one thing. 


It’s got longevity. So I get back to my Florence Nightingale moment. Thinking, my goodness, Oh, here we are. Look what we can offer. Have a look. Slam, slam, slam, slam, slam. And, tinkle, tinkle into the money box, I think, but there we are.  


[00:25:17] Brenda: Yes, yes. And the people who are listening are going to be a little bit enraged because the cost of treatment is just astronomical. 


It’s just nonsensical. And I do understand that it costs money to treat people.  


[00:25:34] Norman: Not that much. It’s just, you compare that.  


[00:25:37] Brenda: Yes. I  


[00:25:37] Norman: mean, it’s an AA battery, a little AA battery you’d pair a tiny torch with. That’ll do eight people. But of course, you have to, all the support and they’re taking care of them and the, the nurses and so on, that’s fine, but it’s still a fraction, a fraction of what people would, and do spend, as many of your listeners will know, on doing the best for their children or people they know. 


Two and eight. It keeps on coming. Those builds, they may notice to keep on coming. Whereas this, look, this is terrible. I’m sounding as if I’m selling it. I am not selling.  


[00:26:12] Brenda: I know. That’s why I wanted to talk to you because you’re not selling it.  


[00:26:15] Norman: No, I really am. But, but, but yeah, five or 10 days and whatever. 


Short term rehab that is needed with depending on people’s cases. It just works. And with scientific reason, they’ve now done so many studies, know so many facts. They’ve rediscovered the electronic medical approach, which used to be in the Western world about 200 years ago. They were interested in it. even Mr. 


Tesla was interested in it, but, we sold our souls to chemicals some years ago and then the money men came in and said, they didn’t say they would become legal pushers, but I cannot think of a better description for the Sacklers.  


[00:26:58] Brenda: Yeah. yes, absolutely. And that’s a whole nother episode we could do on this. 


Yeah.  


[00:27:02] Norman: But they’ve just, they’ve just got off again. Haven’t they? There you are. Yes.  


[00:27:06] Brenda: Yeah. I could talk forever about that. But I think. I’m just envisioning in my mind. So you’ve had this experience now, Meg was starting this in the seventies, right? So this is not yesterday. And then you have the opportunity to go from Scotland to Kentucky, which is just, I’ve been to Kentucky. 


I’m pretty sure it’s pretty different than Scotland, although it’s incredibly beautiful. What was the experience like of, You going, I’m sure you had a small crew, you land there, you’re going to do this film with these people and it looks like you pretty much kept church and state. So it wasn’t like you weren’t recruiting the people. 


So it felt very pure. But what was that experience like to come over and then meet these guys who are going to actually be. Yeah.  


[00:27:54] Norman: What I had done one or two other smaller films, sometimes even for local BBC television, because you of all people should have noticed that the drug situation isn’t getting better. 


It’s getting worse. So I was aware of this. And I did a couple of films here. I did a second film after my first one. And everyone clammed up when they realized this was getting a bit hot under the collar for them. All the people that said she was Meg Patterson as an angel, she’s a wonderful person, suddenly didn’t want to talk to me, literally refusing. 


and then I began to be aware of all this. Went off and made loads and loads of different films, mainly dramas and great fun. Could never shake the fact that I knew that this had happened. And as I say at the very end, that was my first film, this is my latest. I hope that doesn’t mean it’s the last. I was aware that it needed a real raffle and shake, ask all the questions, show everything. 


If bad things happen, show it. If good things happen, show it. Just so at least I knew, when I realized it had to be me, I knew I’d done my darndest and I wasn’t kidding. And I wasn’t, it was really what happened. Now you ask, what was it like? My crew had never seen it before. And we had to keep everything small because we didn’t have any money much. 


So they needed shock treatment at certain points. They were saying, what? Because some of them knew a bit more about addiction and cold turkey than others. And when you see these, we went through in the end with four guys. I couldn’t, I didn’t have no money. I couldn’t afford a big trial. I had to put the money up myself. 


This is the best way I can describe it. They reinflate. in five days and are better than they had been, they were saying for four years. 13 years or whatever, they just came back and they come back. Now. I was less surprised because by that time I’d seen it in various contexts and for a couple of small films too, but it was still the crickles up the back of the neck, it was like, whoa, but you yesterday you were, but, and you, I said, keep filming, just keep filming. 


We’ll show the truth. So we have.  


[00:30:00] Brenda: Yeah. The, the four guys were Brandon, Kevin Ross, and Robert and. I loved them because they’re so relatable. Like every listener, every mom, every dad is yep, that’s my kid. just, wonderful people, beautiful people, but really, really struggling with these substances and a couple of them, suboxone. 


So I think a lot of people say, Oh, just go on suboxone and you’ll be fine.  


[00:30:26] Norman: 20 years. Six of them on, on Suboxone and couldn’t get off. I, I met those guys and talked a lot with them. I, I spent some time setting this up. I went down to Huntington in West Virginia, which was in a bad way at that time. 


And I, I, I met people I’d met before and I met people I hadn’t met before. I, When you’ve got no money, you’ve got to use that lack of money well. So in the end, thanks to people, especially a place called Isaiah House, which I notice has just been given two and a half million to continue its work. It’s expanding. 


It’s doing really well in Kentucky there. Mark LaPalme, he’s, he’s on the, on the film of two, of course, because Had it not been for him allowing me a facility to use, the bank was dry for me. And he said, look, we’ll put this up. We think this works. We’ve used it ourselves. If you want that, here’s a wing of our latest facility. 


And without that, the film wouldn’t have been made. Certainly not as it is. And so we were free to just show. There was nothing stopping us, and we showed.  


[00:31:28] Brenda: Yeah, that, and I’ll put links to a lot of these resources in the show notes, if you’re listening. Isaiah House is the treatment program that Norman had access to with his crew and these guys to, to make the film, which was amazing. 


And I don’t know why the film’s not available in the United States. Do you know why? I  


[00:31:47] Norman: can tell you that’s the valid point. Here’s the problem. When I finished making it, There wasn’t everybody clustering around. My industry was beginning to freeze because of the lockdown and for about 15 months probably it stopped. 


Cinemas were closed, television wasn’t being made, and the whole thing stopped. on the eve of us doing a distribution deal, I might add, literally, I had a meeting in London. Looked all very good. Everything was going ahead. The next Monday, that was a Friday, the next Monday, Britain closed down and the rest is history. 


But we were stuck there. But I knew the people everywhere would really, if you really need to see this, you need to see it. So I put it on Amazon just as a platform so we could sell it for a cheap price, but people could get it. And that worked after a while. But as soon as we started to look For a distributor, they’re not interested if it’s already out on Amazon, that’s their job done. 


we’ve just signed this week, finally, a distribution deal for an international distributor. But he will sell, or they will sell, to take it to market, to sell to broadcast companies, to streamers, to everything. They’re in charge of that. Now, millions of people can see this. But I have a problem, because I want people to see it now, especially if they’re hurting. 


But I can’t do that if you’re trying to sell the film itself to get it out to millions and millions of people. Now the other problem, close on the heels of that, is you can’t get this, because people have been against it so much. There’s not oh, turn up at, I don’t know, Illinois, and you’ll find you’ve got people operating this. 


Nobody In the power, seems to have embraced it, as Mark LaPalma in the film says, he’s the chap in charge of the Isaiah House Treatment Center, he says, people haven’t figured out how to make money out of it, that’s it, they’re making money out of every other way, but they can’t figure this one out. 


And I think he’s probably right. So where can you go to get this treatment? At the moment, you can’t. And I do have to say, goodness, I’ll be getting them into trouble, but the FDA has not been the best helpful with this. They have a lot of connections with people who are doing well on the status quo of a lot of money. 


Thank you very much. And I, I, I could go in other directions and tell you more truth about that, but that isn’t my point here. So basically. I would like to see there’s a film available for everyone, but more than that, I’d like to see the treatment. As an option, one tool in the toolbox, call it what you want, because it’ll do the job. 


But, is it possible to give you a preseed to pass on to your listeners? I think I’m going to have to take this up with the distributor and say, look, Consider this advertising. Maybe that would work. I don’t know. I just want people to get better. That’s all I want. There’s too many people dying on my patch in Scotland. 


You wake up to the, I say, rather dramatically, but it’s true, you wake up to the sound of bodies falling in the morning.  


[00:34:57] Brenda: Yes,  
 
[00:34:57] Norman: it’s a wicked situation to let go and I don’t intend to let it go.  


[00:35:04] Brenda: I’m so grateful that you have taken this on as your path to beat and I agree. It’s important to see because there is a lot of mistrust in the treatment. 


community with parents who have spent all of their money and all the money that they don’t have. So when something new comes along, it’s I don’t know about that. So I do think it’s important for people to see the film and actually see Brandon and Kevin and Ross and Robert go through this and, and see how their lives have changed. 


[00:35:42] Norman: And they have Tim, my colleague and all this, Tim Neves, send the crew back to. Kentucky six weeks ago, and they talked to the people and so on. They’re typically getting a hold of Ross, but they got a hold of the other three. they’re amazing. This is two years on, nothing more than the five days, no more cravings and all that. 


One of the guys, as you remember from the film, got arrested as soon as he left the treatment because of past offences. And someone snitched on him, and he was thrown into jail with, A Kentucky jail has a lot of drugs in it. A lot of drugs. And he didn’t get cravings. And he didn’t take drugs. And to prove that, because I was, gotta be making this tough film, gotta be doubtful. 


So we tested him, you remember, on the film. And, I watched it, made sure it was exactly as it should be. And there he is. Three months in jail. He got off early, for some reason. But three months in jail, where everything was on offer, and not one trace of a drug in his system. Matt’s in jail with nobody with him. 


[00:36:44] Brenda: After  


[00:36:44] Norman: five to seven days. that’s crazy. I know it’s crazy, but watch the film when you can.  


[00:36:49] Brenda: It is crazy. And I think that for me, I was so glad when it got to that point in the film, I was like, Oh no, I just knew in my heart as a mom, I was like, he’s going to test positive. I just know he is because he was in jail. 


There’s drugs everywhere. He had no support, no anything. And then when his test came, we’re doing a little spoiler alert. Oh  


[00:37:11] Norman: yeah. Oh yes. Don’t tell him anymore. But, but you understand I had to tell the truth, so if that had been the other way I’d have told it. And when he went in jail, this is my lack of faith or whatever you call it, but I thought that’s him gone. 


How sad. He’d just got such a great start. He was clean, bright eyed, bushy tailed, getting out there, wanted to do good. The whole load, the whole nine miles or whatever you call it. And basically, I was over here in Scotland and I heard he’d been slammed into jail on past offences. And my heart just sank. I thought, he was such a good guy. 


And then I went over, again, to film, on a cheap flight, and there he was, coming out, so I thought, I’ll film it. And then, of course, you have to do the tests. Dot, dot, dot. Watch that later.  


[00:38:01] Brenda: Just We will find a way for you to be able to watch, because I know now my, my email is going to blow up, because people are going to say, how do I see the film? 


if you’re listening, we will We’ll figure out a way. So stay tuned on that. And in the show notes, I’ll put whatever I can, whatever I can put, but I do think it’s important for people to see it is clearly not a placebo effect if it has lasted years, because we know that it’s not that these are bad people. 


These are chemicals that have hooked themselves into the body. And so I do think you had asked earlier what my thoughts are on this having lived through.  


[00:38:39] Norman: Yes. I’d be interested.  


[00:38:40] Brenda: With my son and I see this day in and day out, I think you’re right. In that five days. Can reset the body and the pain response and all of that. 


And then I think there’s still the trauma that may have been there before. There’s still the lack of executive functioning. There’s still all of the issues that may have led up to the substance that can be dealt with. But the great thing is that at that point, the person has the mental capacity to deal with it. 


[00:39:12] Norman: They have a choice. Yeah. Can you imagine that? Have a choice as to whether you go back to it or not. And I have to say in general, they absolutely do not go back to it. Why would they? but, but to see that happen, and then, I’m thinking of the two guys, Kevin and Ross. They were missing home, right? They’re in Kentucky, but their actual home is in eastern Kentucky. 


And after five days, they were ready to go, my goodness, we’ve got to go back and get on that tractor and stuff, do the whole thing. And I was away filming when they, that decision made, and I got back to Isaiah’s house, and they’d gone. I said, where have they gone? It should be five to seven days. 


Have they, they’ve had nothing. They played a bit of ping pong is what they’ve done. And. That was it. Now, you look at Kevin today, or ask his parents who have given up completely on him, he’s the one that says, I’m, I’m through it now. I’m sober. I’m done with it. And that was, I think, day six or seven when he said that. 


Looking totally different. And he’s still brilliant today. I think it varies, is what I would say. Some people need more, some help to walk again and other people don’t. But when you come out there bright eyed bushy tailed with your wits intact and you’re eager to do get forward, that is a different set of circumstances which as you will have been in places and seen that heavy feeling of people coming off the tough way and are they going to even want to get up in the morning. 


This is a totally different and very speedy and very well tested. There’s Hundreds, thousands of people have done it now. They’re all on record in the, in the computer stacks. So why won’t people look at it is my only response. it’s I’ll go and make a drama film while I’m waiting for common sense to reign in the world. 


[00:41:08] Brenda: It does. It is so baffling. I’ve racked my brain ever since I started, working on this. And I came back to the same place that, that you obviously have and, and Mark at Isaiah House is that there, there isn’t a lot of money in it. Yes, I still think there’s a place for therapy. I think there’s still a place for a certain level of therapy. 


Treatment that I put in air quotes because it’s a different kind of treatment, but just, getting back to life, learning some of the skills that you may have left behind, getting through some emotional trauma and things like that. But your, your brain is available for it at that point. And so the only thing I can come up with in my head and I’ve. 


Paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for treatment is that no one is going to get rich off of this That’s the only thing I could think of and so it is going to take a lot of really passionate people To get behind this and I know that in and I was saying earlier if you want to find the most passionate people behind addiction Talk to the moms because our babies, even if they’re 30 years old, they are still our babies. 


And if they’re hurting, we are going to figure out how to help them. So I will put my army of moms behind this. and we will do whatever we can. If we need to go to the FDA, we will. barge down the door. So we’ll stay in touch on that and figure out how, how we could help with that.  


[00:42:35] Norman: Yes, please do. And we were talking earlier about people not being what we call in Britain couch potatoes anymore. 


We used to look at films and TV and streaming and say, entertain me. Entertain me, but now there’s so many problems, not at least climate change and many others banging at our doors. I think I’m certainly seeing over here, there’s an eagerness, a willingness and or eagerness depending on your personality to engage. 


And if the press or if the media. Or if the doctor, the world of doctors and medicine, or the world of the big pharma machines and factories won’t talk about this, then I think that engagement with truth is wide open to you. If you see this, do not make any statements in favor of this until you see the film and are convinced that it is worthwhile. 


But if people are stopping An open examination of something that I just did my best to showing up with honesty, something is wrong somewhere and I’ve had, I was going to say vicious, sometimes very, very tough opposition where they will not engage with it because it contradicts what they’ve gone on record of saying about addiction or because they’ve taken money away from addiction purposes. 


It’s a long story, but so if you get out there and make a noise. At least it won’t be silent and you’ll have done something. But don’t do it unless you feel it’s true. But even then, to look at it is all we’re saying. To look at it. I was talking with representative of the Scottish government. And, I said, why isn’t this actually, why are you taking up? 


It’s non evidential. I said, okay, but you’re the government. You can, it wouldn’t cost very much at all. Why don’t you look at it? Look at the results. no, we can’t do that. Why? It’s non evidential. And it went round in circles. And it was basically, I could tell you other things. Basically, I was told that they would never talk to me. 


Because I’m not medical and they disagree that they’ve been doing the wrong things in Scotland for many years. Which is probably why we are at three and a half times worse than England even, with our drug policy. But they don’t want to look at that, they don’t want to face that. So it’s frustrating, but if you make a noise Or if you phone up the press, or if you say to your senator, or anybody in local authority, Could we not look at this? 


Could we not do this? Then you’re helping, that’s all. Don’t do it unless you mean it, but yeah.  


[00:45:21] Brenda: Yes, definitely. I think the The Catch 22 and the cycles and the red tape are just exhausting and, and I have to imagine for somebody who, you know, somebody like you who is passionate about it, but this isn’t your full time job, you must just get so frustrated because you’ve seen it, you’ve documented it. 


You’ve interacted with the people who it’s worked with, and yet to say it’s non evidential is just mind bending.  


[00:45:50] Norman: I know, I know. Welcome to my world. Oh, yes.  


[00:45:57] Brenda: we, we have a bunch of parents who literally are out of their minds trying to find things to help their kids, and as you said, it is not available, there is no treatment program In the United States, at least that you can call up and say, I’d like to participate in this. 


I know there are trials coming up that are going to happen. And so hopefully Hopefully that will change. Is there anywhere in the world where this is being used? I saw somewhere that it’s available for experimental use, but I don’t know where that is.  


[00:46:33] Norman: it was going to be being used in Scotland. I know a fair bit about this, but not all of it. 


All I know is that there’s a town called Erskine, not far from Glasgow, and a facility was being built, a commercial facility built. They, they do run up. old people’s home, they run rehab homes, they run all these things, they do a good job. And they were, I’m just wondering if I should be speaking about this, but they were going to take 30 beds for addiction on a regular basis and they were going to use NET. 


And we were still at the point where we were doing press and publicity and we could mention this and the story was going, and they were very helpful, spoke to the publicity person and so on. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Now, I think they. Let’s say they’ve said there was extenuating circumstances why this happened, but the night I said, okay, fine. 


So this journalist can talk to you tomorrow. Blah, blah, blah. Yeah, fine, fine, fine. Nine o’clock the next morning, something had happened overnight. 9 o’clock next morning, in came the letters, horrific, legal, you will not mention us, you will, cannot connect us with this, you will not, completely different, it’s like working up in Russia, it was bizarre, two days later they softened up and said no, we didn’t really mean it that way, but then, Now, I would guess, this is not proof, I would guess, because of other circumstances I’ve been through, that the civil serpent, servants, sorry, sometimes I call them swivel serpents, but the civil servants are the go to people that do work for the governmental power people, must have had a word. 


Because otherwise My dear government in Scotland would have had 30 people a week coming up with no problem on this treatment while they’re saying there’s no evidence, it’s not evidential. So that could not be allowed to happen and bang, it disappeared overnight. Now that’s a mild version of what we’ve come across in many ways. 


But that is worrying. So make a noise,  


[00:48:34] Brenda: make a noise. That is the key word here. Make a noise. And we will definitely make as much noise as we can on this side of the pond and, and stay in touch for sure. I will again be speaking with Owen. I’m hoping to get some answers. either or any of the participants that I can, for the next podcast episode, just so that we can hear from them directly. 


So I’m going to try and track those guys down.  


[00:49:00] Norman: Sure.  


[00:49:00] Brenda: And thank you for this. Thanks for  


[00:49:03] Norman: My pleasure. You’ll find Owen is far more reasonable than me, because he is Officially part of the NET and they’ve got to watch their backs and behave themselves properly and be very reasonable. I just get frustrated. 


So we’re a good blend. We went on talk shows together in America when we were over there filming and we were like Lauren Hardy. he was being very responsible and I was saying, but for goodness sake, I’m getting on with it. So you’ll get the, the smoother version of the thing with Owen, but he’s a great fellow. 


He’s in the film, and he knows so much. He personally was involved in bringing 250 Scottish addicts off a few years ago. When he came up with the evidence, the hours that he said, Oh, I think it’s just a little out of date. It was like six, Five or six years ago because they wouldn’t talk for five or six years. 


consider on very, very well and balancing with my exasperation, please.  


[00:50:01] Brenda: I do love the passion and the ability that you have to be able to just speak freely about it, which is what I really wanted because as parents and like you said, the bodies are falling here and The parents who are listening to this are the parents of those bodies, and we do not have time or any tolerance for people to beat around the bush, for people to put us off, and so we grab onto things when we, when we think they might work. 


This will definitely not be the final conversation by any means, but thank you for the time. If there was just a word or two of hope that you would give to somebody listening based on everything that you’ve seen, starting back with your tea with Eric Clapton, what would you want to say to, to a listener? 


[00:50:51] Norman: I think if this did not exist, I would be still, because I’ve had friends that have died from addictions, we should still do our very best for those people. It’s a terrible, horrible trap, as you all know. And I think we should still be out there doing what we can, and bringing them into the fold when we can. 


It’s tough work, it’s uphill, it’s all the stuff you know. But if something like this is available to look at, For goodness sake, what’s wrong with us? Look at it! I’ve never seen it fail, and that’s over a scattered year, few years of it, when I was doing other films all the time. I know people have relapsed, but a very small, it’s usually about 80 percent success after however many years, which is ridiculous when you think of what normal things would be. 


So if it’s there, please make sure people look at it and use it. Your children’s lives are at stake there, it’s as simple as that. And if you do not think it works, don’t. But at least, please, look. Because I’ve done my best to be straight up and straight on with it, and that’s what in the film is what I saw and the crew saw. 


I didn’t play any tricks or anything like that. As you say, advertising is not me. It’s just a straight thing. And it raises so many questions that need sorting out. in our society, especially about power, profit, and health. It’s up to us now. It does exist. It isn’t fitting under the carpet as we try to sweep it in there. 


It, it, just make it bigger, in terms of noise and questions. And there is hope. If it wasn’t there, it’d be tough, tougher. We should still work on it, but with this, there is at least a bucket full of hope per person. I don’t know how else to describe it.  


[00:52:46] Brenda: I love it.  


[00:52:46] Norman: Yeah, it’s there. It’s there.  


[00:52:49] Brenda: thank you for making the film. 


We will find a way to get as much out as we can.  


[00:52:55] Norman: Yeah, thank you very much indeed. And to all those who are hurting out there, because there will be some hurting badly, do not give up. Because, who knows, there may be other stuff out there, but certainly this is worth a look. And thank you for allowing me to rant on like a mad Scotsman and put up with me. 


[00:53:12] Brenda: It  
 
[00:53:12] Norman: has been a pleasure.  


[00:53:14] Brenda: Anytime. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening. If you would like to go to the show notes, you can always find those at brendazane. com forward slash podcast. Each episode is listed there with full transcript, all of the resources that you that we mentioned as well as a place to leave comments if you would like to do that. 


You might also want to download a free ebook I wrote called Hindsight, three things I wish I knew when my son was addicted to drugs. It’s full of the information I wish I would have known when my son was struggling with his addiction. You can grab that at brendazane. com forward slash hindsight. Thanks again for listening and I will meet you right back here next week.