What Kids in Active Addiction Can’t Tell Their Parents (But Desperately Need Them to Know)

The Thing Your Kid Can’t Tell You When They’re Struggling, with Enzo Narciso

[00:00:00] Hello, hello, my son Enzo. Welcome back to the podcast Hello. Yeah. Hey, thanks for having me again. Yeah. I know I’m catching you right before some golf, which is- Oh, yeah … one of your new addictions. I was just on a little chat in our community, and I mentioned that your two new addictions are golf and the stock market, and we all agreed- that those two are much safer than fentanyl and Xanax. Yeah, exactly. In case there was any question. Exactly. And the s- you know, the stock market’s an interesting one, because I think… So here’s the thing about it. I’m not a day trader, for anybody that listens. I don’t have a- Yeah … system, but Something about it that I love is just that it changes every day, and there’s always new information, and you can read as many books as you like, and you can study everything that you want to, but you will still struggle to keep up- with everything. Yeah, yeah. And, and right when you think you, there’s, you got a good idea, everything 

[00:01:00] changes, and it goes completely the other way, and that’s your task is to be able to navigate that. And so it’s a never ending thrill for me. And it, you know, it tickles the cortisol muscle in my brain. Yeah. And golf is kind of the other thing. It relaxes me sometimes. If I’m playing well, it’s extremely relaxing, and it’s super strategic. You know, you have to think really hard. You have to focus at the perfect level, but not too much. And so it’s a good couple things to be interested in. And I think, and you’ve said this before, that they’re, for an ADHD brain, they’re actually really good. They’re a good fit. Absolutely. Yeah. For me, it works perfectly, and I’m definitely patient zero with ADHD. I mean- Exactly. Do you still play chess? I don’t even know this. Do you still play chess? I love chess. ‘Cause I remember when you were, I think you must have been in first grade or kindergarten or something, I don’t know, and you joined the chess team in your elementary school, and I was shocked, and you were so good at it. And people

[00:02:00] were like, “How does he know how to play chess?” And I’m like, “I don’t know. I don’t even know-” Yeah how to play chess.” Yeah. Well, my grandfather taught me. That’s right. You know- That’s right … Pop taught me and I love it. I just love it because there’s, you can… It’s, again, it’s like how the market changes every day, and you’ve gotta make a change based on what your opponent has made. Mm-hmm. And he’s making a change based off what you made a change on, and you gotta think three steps ahead, and they’re trying to think three steps ahead. Who can think ahead furthest- Yeah … and who can get there in the right way without the opponent knowing exactly what’s going on? There’s a lot of, different ways to do it. And so it’s just a.. I still play it all the time. I was just down in Puerto Escondido in Mexico playing at the hostel, and I play with the kids a lot, too and it’s, I just love it. I love it. Yeah. That’s- Yeah … that’s a good one. I still really don’t know how to play. Next time you visit- Yeah Seattle, we’ll have to, you’ll have to give me a lesson Yeah … chess. Cool. Well, there were 
[00:03:00] just a couple things that we’ve been chatting about in our various conversations that we have, on FaceTime and in text and so I thought we would hop on. It’s always fun to see your face and- Yeah and chat. And you had shared something with me that you had shared recently with another mom, and I thought it was really relevant. And so I was hoping before we dive into the things that your kid can’t tell you, which is very intriguing and even enlightening for me, I wonder if you would tell us this little story. Yeah. So it’s the fish love story. And it’s by a rabbi, actually. This is not a religious advertisement, but it’s by a rabbi named Adam Tversky. And it goes something like this, okay? I’m gonna kinda summarize the story. But there’s a man at a river, and a man, another man approaches him and asks the man, “What are you doing?” And the man goes, “Oh, I’m fishing.” And he’s got his fishing pole in the river, and he’s, like, sitting there with his bait and everything. 

[00:04:00] And so the other man goes, “Hey, oh, okay, you’re fishing. Why are you fishing?” And the guy goes, “Oh, I love fish.” And so the other guy goes, “Well, okay, you love fish, so you take a dangerous item and put a food thing to trick the fish to bite it. You throw it in the fish’s environment. You trick the fish, and it bites into this weapon, and then you drag it out of the water, and you kill it, okay? And then you cut it up, and you eat it. And so do you love fish, or do you love yourself?” Right? It’s, that’s the question here, is why are you doing what you’re doing? And are you doing it because you love that thing, or is it because you love yourself? You love the way it feels. You love the fish, the taste of the fish, and you love the way it makes you feel, how you feel full. But you’ve confused yourself. You’ve told yourself that you love fish, okay? 

[00:05:00] And so it’s just a beautiful analogy because it makes you question, okay, well, hold on. What, why am I doing the things that I’m doing? Right. What is it that I actually like here, you know? And so, like, if we were just gonna… This, that’s obviously a brutal example. No one’s here trying to trick anybody and hurt them- Right … and drag them out of their environment. I’m not saying that that’s what most people are doing, right? But it’s a metaphor for, like, what are we doing here? Why are we doing it? Yeah. And so the man who goes to the other man and asks him why is sort of a way that you can think to yourself, like- Why have I married my husband or why have I married my wife? Most people a lot of the time, they actually believe it or not, they haven’t thought about the question. They say, “Oh, I love him,” or, “I love her.” You know? Or, “Why are you dating your girlfriend?” “Oh, I love her.” Okay. Well, do you love her or do you love to feel companionship? Do you love to feel 

[00:06:00] the warmth that they provide you? Do you love the status that it may show the world if you’re dating a man that makes, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars every year and they drive a Ferrari and you like to get out of the Ferrari with the… okay, like, think about it or she makes- Or she … $100,000, $500,000 a year. Of course. Yeah, of course but you can ask yourself, why do I love my partner? Okay, why did I marry my partner? Why am I dating my partner? Is it because of what I get out of the relationship or is it because I love them and most of the time it will be, somebody will say, “It’s because I love them.” But why? That doesn’t answer the question. That tells me what you got out of the relationship. Right. Right. And so it’s just a lot of… it really does make you think like- What is it that we’re doing here? If you love the fish, let’s just bring it back to the fish example. If you love fish and you love to fish so much, you would go to the river and you would enjoy the view of the 

[00:07:00] fish passing by, and you would throw some food into the river and feed them and let them enjoy their life. And then maybe they, maybe you come back again the next day and you see the same fish. Yeah. Right? Or whatever the case may be. But here’s the thing. We try and get so many things out of the people that we love. Mm-hmm. You know, and we don’t do it intentionally. It’s not like, “Oh, I want this feeling.” Yeah. Yeah. Right? I’m not saying that you’re a bad person if you, if the, your answer is, “Oh, well, I married my husband or my, I married my wife,” or, “I’m dating my girlfriend or my boyfriend because I love them.” Like, that makes… I understand, right? But you didn’t answer why you married them or why you’re dating them, okay? Yeah. Yeah. You’re saying what you get. And so, like, if we just overlay this into, like, kids, right? Everybody loves their kid, right? But, like, if you love the kid, you allow it to live, and you feed it, you help it, 

[00:08:00] and you enjoy its presence, and you’re not dying to see the Yale, graduated from Yale, right? And- Right. … oh my gosh, I love my kid. You know what I mean? Yes, yes. And so it’s something to think about, it comes into my mind all the time. I ask myself, “Why do I like this activity?” Right. “Why do I want to do this?” You know? What is the thing? And that’s a super important question. Yeah. And when you told me this, it really, well, it struck several chords, but one that I think especially that I see, and to some degree I did, is as parents, of course, we love our kids. And again, we’re not saying anybody doesn’t love their child, but what can happen is I think we have these expectations and we have these outcomes that we are placing on our kids that, because we’re looking for a particular 

[00:09:00] emotional response or feeling based on what they are doing and how they are doing. So we have needs, and when my kid does well I feel pride, and I like feeling pride. Of course. And I feel this, like, sense of gratification, like pat myself on the back. I did such a good job raising my kids or my self-esteem- Of course, right … my self-esteem- Of course … is boosted because my kid got this job or got into this college or at some level my self-esteem went up because you actually graduated from high school, like that. So your expectations can definitely change. But I do see this, and I think why I wanted to have you talk about it a little bit is we may have unconditional love for our kids, but they might feel like our love and approval is conditional based on what they’re doing, who they’re dating, what college they’re going to, if 
[00:10:00] they’re going to college, what job they get, how much money they earn. Like, all of those things can make it appear to them that, “Oh, if I live my life in this way, my parents have-” Will love you. Yes. Will love me, will be happy. They won’t be stressed out. They’ll talk about me to their friends, right? Mm-hmm. They’ll include me in the holiday letter. Like- Yeah … all of those little signals can be misinterpreted to a young person as love. Yeah. And really, I think what that is, is that’s approval. But what we have to be careful about is, am I projecting something on my child that says, “If you do this, I will feel great.” Mm-hmm. “I will be less stressed. I will be happy,” you know? Yeah. And that’s a dangerous place to be, especially with a young person who’s struggling with substances and mental health in particular. Mm-hmm. And to 
[00:11:00] just to kind of circle back on that, like It’s absolutely totally normal and okay to be proud of your kid- Of course … for achieving great things, right? Yeah. And we shouldn’t say, “Oh, we’re so proud of you,” because we just had to bond you out of jail. And like, “Don’t worry about it, okay? So unconditional love is different from showing pride and being happy. Right. Like, that- that’s normal. It’s normal to be upset that your kid is completely blowing it, right? Like, that’s not, no one’s saying just totally be thrilled about that. Like, I think what the key distinction here is, like, how can we make sure that the kids know that we still love them and we’re here for them, right? Yeah. If you’re blowing it still, I’m still here to help you, right? Right. Let’s just go backward a little bit and go to the river, to the fish example. If the beautiful fish is swimming up the river and there’s a easier 

[00:12:00] route up the river, okay? And it doesn’t seem to go in that route, like, let’s help it. Let’s help it get to the right route, okay? You don’t tell that fish, “Oh my gosh. I don’t like you anymore.” I’m not feeding you anymore. What’s wrong with you? Yeah. I wanna help the fish- Right … get to the correct route and get up the river, right? And that’s what you do if you love it because you’re just gonna let it continue up the river. And so there are a lot of challenges that kids are gonna face, and they do face it. But there’s another quote that I love. This is by Jonathan Sacks If achievement were easy, we would take no pride in it. Okay? Mm. So there are challenges that kids are gonna have to navigate, and they’re gonna have to figure them out, and, like, we wanna help ’em. And if there’s no challenge and nothing has happened, right, to make that kid proud of himself, then he hasn’t probably achieved anything. Okay? Yeah. And so some of these kids are in that 

[00:13:00] situation, and they need some challenges. And obviously, I mean, a lot of the people listening to this are gonna have kids in really hard situations, and so we wanna help ’em. But we’re not saying, “Oh my gosh, I don’t love you anymore because you’re going through these challenges” or anything. We wanna make sure that that is displayed to the kid, right? Right. ‘Cause it’s so easy to get trapped up in the, “Oh my gosh,” you know. I’ve felt it. Like, ” i’m not a good athlete. You know, I’m not a good student. I haven’t performed academically or athletically in any way, so what am I doing?” You know? Right. And then, and if the only reason that I know that I’ve been shown affection or shown any kind of appreciation is because of my performance, right, then that kinda puts kids in a tough spot, so. Yeah. Yeah, I was gonna ask you how that was in your experience, if you felt like I was placing expectations on you that didn’t necessarily fit, 

[00:14:00] or I don’t know, if just- if there’s anything in this that relates to what we went through. Well, I mean, academics obviously was super encouraged. Yeah. College, you know. Yeah. A lot of it has to do with the environment. Everybody’s kid is supposed to go to the best college so that every Wednesday at dinner everybody can share that- Yeah … “Oh my gosh, my kid got into here and there.” And so I don’t blame you. Like, there’s no what are you supposed to do? You know? Yeah. What are you… you can’t just go about life and not encourage your kids to go and achieve great things, you know? Like, we want that to happen. But me being me, and me having the personality that I had, the hardheadedness and everything, I didn’t wanna listen to the teacher. Yeah. And I didn’t want somebody to tell me that this is the route to go. Right. I wanted to figure it out, you know? And I wanted to make my own money, and I wanted to do my own thing and have my own achievements. And so, you know, here’s kind of an example, there was a family that I 

[00:15:00] had been working with, and their son had a potential job opportunity, but it wasn’t gonna be possible for a handful of months. And so in the meantime, I’m encouraging the kid, like, “Dude, let’s try and get you a job for the meantime. You know, like maybe make some money, then you can see if you like that one once this other one comes up.” But it sounded like he was pretty set on this one job. It was a good job. It’s a great job, actually. He makes great money now. But if I go and I tell him, “Hey, forget that. It’s more important right now to get a job today. Like you have this incredible opportunity, okay? Forget it for now. Like, let’s get a good job right now, and that’s the way you’re gonna do well,” and if he goes and listens to me, then I make a victory when he gets a job. Mm. Okay? So- Yeah … yeah, he may have gotten the job because I pressured him to do it, but in his head he knows that really I’m the winner of this situation. Mm-hmm. And he’s got his route that he wants to go. And it turns out he actually did get the 

[00:16:00] job. He waited a while, he got the job, and he’s doing overtime now, working full-time overtime. Okay, so he’s doing a great job. Yeah. And it’s his victory. Right. That’s the critical part, it’s his victory that he had his plan, he lined it up, and then he executed the plan. And so there’s these subtle ways that we can nudge kids, you know, and try and encourage certain things and discourage other things. But the best kind of victory that a kid can get is his own victory from his plan- Yeah … right? So back to what you were saying about, like, your expectations and things like that, like yeah, I did feel pressure to, like… And I’m not great at math. You know, not great at- That rolled downhill for me. Yeah. Not good at, like, figuring out- Not good at math what a sodium and a hydrogen… Like, I don’t, I’m sorry, I don’t know. But, like, I figured, eventually I figured it out, thank God- Yeah … with God’s help. Yeah. You know? And like, and it feels good because it’s a 
[00:17:00] victory of mine that I have, you know? Yeah. And like, I mean, I could go on for days about, like, what is going on in the world now, and kids that are getting out of college, and they’ve got a degree. And you know, I have a buddy who works at Fidelity, and he tells me, “Dude, there are kids that I work with, they are clueless.” Right. “They don’t… Their dad told them to go into finance. They’re working in finance now. They hate it every day.” Right. And, like, do we want our kids doing that? Yeah … I don’t know. I’m not a parent but, like, do we want our kids spending 40 hours a week, sometimes 60 hours a week, doing something they hate, right? Yeah. Or do we wanna let the fish go up the river himself and find some kind of way? And we’ll help him along. We’ll help him up the river. Yeah. But let’s get, let’s let him get there, you know? Yeah. And let him figure it out. So. Yeah. The thing that pops into my mind, the best example of this, with you was there was a time where- I can’t remember which legal issue it was, to tell you the 
[00:18:00] truth, but you needed a lawyer. And I was like, “Well, you know, I can call so-and-so or so-and-so,” and this and that, and then I didn’t hear back from you. And then eventually you said to me, we were on a call and you said, “Oh, I just wrapped up my last call with my lawyer and got everything sorted out.” And I was like, “What?” And you said, “I feel like such a boss, because I hired my own lawyer. I paid for my own lawyer. I got this legal issue sorted out-” Yeah … and it’s done. Yeah. And when you were talking about the victory, that was your victory. If I had hired the lawyer and I had done this and I had arranged that, that would’ve been my victory, and you would’ve still been probably left feeling like, “Well, my mom doesn’t think I’m capable of doing this.” Well, so I would’ve completed the case. It probably would’ve worked out fine, and I would’ve enjoyed it, but at the end of the day, my growth has been 

[00:19:00] stunted. Yeah. Right? Yeah. I haven’t solved my own issue. And now, actually, when I talk to kids, right, that’s a story I tell them all the time. I said I got this job. It was a great job. I’d never made that much money, right? But the bummer was I had to do the like, the first three months or so of my income went straight to paying this lawyer. Okay? And I was pissed, because I’m like, “Gosh, I gotta pay this guy.” But after it was all done and I paid him, and I paid him- Right … okay, like, I handled it, right? I felt so good. I’m still super happy with myself for having handled that situation. And- Yeah … so those are the kind of victories that we want. Those kids are gonna remember those times, you know? Yeah. They’re gonna remember the victories that they have. They love them. And I still remember that exact moment, and honestly, I’m grateful that I handled that. Like, I’m- Yeah … I’m grateful that I took it into, I don’t know, I mean, maybe I would’ve had a couple extra grand 

[00:20:00] if you helped me out- Right … but it would’ve stunted some part of my growth, and probably, and I wouldn’t have that victory to look back on and to talk about. So- Right … it’s a perfect example, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Is there anything that you wish that I could have heard or understood about what you wanted during this time when you were really struggling? Mm-hmm. Yeah, you know it actually touched me a lot. I was, a couple months ago I had a conversation with a kid and I asked him like, “Dude, if there’s something like I could tell your parents, like what would it be?” And it actually like almost choked me up. He said, “Man, honestly, I would just tell them like I’m trying.” Mm-hmm. “I’m trying.” And like it’s crazy because I actually have the exact same, I had the same feeling in that moment- Mm … when I was going through it. I’m like, “I’m sorry. I don’t know what I’m supposed to do here.” Yeah. I’m not a good student, okay? Not a good athlete 

[00:21:00] don’t know really what I’m good at here, and but I’m trying. Like, I’m doing what I’m doing. I know I like drugs, okay? I know I like to hustle. I like this lifestyle, right? Like, that’s what I know I’m good at. That’s where I’m getting signals that- Mm I’m good at that. Yeah. And so I’m sorry, but I’m trying. I’m trying to do something. And it kind of, that’s what I would’ve said. That’s exactly what I would’ve said, is like, “I’m trying,” you know? ” I’m sorry it’s not your way, like, but I am trying and I’m just trying to make it,” you know? Yeah. Yeah. And it’s difficult because everybody in the world is just trying to get by. Like, everybody’s just trying to make it. And, like, unfortunately, these kids have been consumed with this idea that, like, “Drugs is what I’m good at.” Right. “Drugs is what makes me feel good. I have community here,” right? “I’m accepted there.” Yeah. “I’m, 

[00:22:00] I’m getting signals that that’s what I’m good at, and so I’m sorry. But I don’t know what else to do. I don’t have any other thing that I’m great at, that, like, is just giving me signals that I’m good at.” And so, I mean, that’s really what it would’ve been, is that like- Yeah … “I’m sorry, but I’m trying,” you know? Right. And it’s, obviously it’s not the route that any parent would want, but the, “I’m trying,” is what it would’ve been if I could’ve said one thing. You know, and this other kid happened to have the same exact situation, so. Yeah, and what’s funny, ’cause we initially talked for this episode about, like, what are some of the things that kids are feeling or thinking but they can’t really say to their parents, and I think that is one of them, “I’m trying,” because from our viewpoint looking at our kids, they don’t look like they’re trying at all. It looks like they’re actually doing the opposite. Like, you are self-sabotaging. You’re- Yeah … you’re blowing up your life, 

[00:23:00] and so there’s that dissonance, right, of what you- And sorry to interrupt you here, but- Yeah, yeah, yeah … just to be clear, that is true. They are blowing their lives up. Yeah. Okay . They are. Like, we’re not saying that they’re not. Yeah. I’m just saying that, like, they are trying something, and that’s the, that might be the only thing that they think that they’re good at, right? Yeah. So how are you gonna tell a kid to abandon ship on that? Right. Right? But, but to your point, like, the dissonance, you know, what you were saying about that, like- Well, yeah when you are getting all of the signals and all of the, I guess, what do I wanna say, like- The reinforcement affirmations and the reinforcement from the people that you’re hanging out with. Like, “You’re really good at this,” and, you know, “There’s a reason why those older guys asked you to drive to California to buy drugs, because they knew you were smart. They knew that you were adventurous. You loved risk. You were up for anything.” Like, so you’re getting 

[00:24:00] all of that reinforcement. Like, ” I’m actually really good at this.” Yeah, I’m the man. And- I’m the man in this domain. Yeah … it makes me physically feel better, right? Like, it calms me down, or it makes me more social, or it makes me more- Mm … whatever the substances are doing. That’s a pretty hard combination to argue, if it’s like giving you- It’s impossible … all these things. It’s impossible. I mean, why do people struggle for years doing this? Right. You know? And unfortunately, what I always try to remind parents of is the part of the brain that has the ability to look into the future and to see where this train is going, and the fact that it’s headed towards a brick wall, is not working. It is not developed. So, you could say till you’re blue in the face- Right … “Hey, this is not gonna have long-term good outcomes,” and your kid can not see that. Yeah. They just can’t. I- Does not register … I will never forget, one point you got into trouble, I don’t even know what for, and they made you 
[00:25:00] go to this, they called it If Only. Do you remember this, where I had to drive you to, like, the Central District in Seattle and drop you off at this jail? I think it was a jail where they had death row inmates, and they were- Yeah … it was kind of a scared straight thing, right? Mm-hmm. And they were gonna talk to you and tell you, like, “There was a point in my life where if only I had made this decision, if only I hadn’t made this decision.” It was supposed to scare you into being good. Mm. So I drop you off there for eight hours. I come back and I pick you up, and I’m, of course, me, I’m expecting, like, you’re gonna have this like, “Oh my gosh,” like, “Now I get it. This is so dumb. I can’t believe what I’m doing.” And you literally said, “What a bunch of losers mm-hmm That they ended up in jail. I was like- Yeah … “What?” Yeah. You couldn’t see it. No. Do you remember that? No, I mean, I remember going to a bunch of different- Yeah … programs and- Yeah … just, just talk 
[00:26:00] with somebody- … and things like that. But I mean, these, I’m a hardheaded one. I don’t, you know- Yeah … I’ll be honest, that’s one of my- Yeah … things is like, and it helps me in a lot of ways to be hardheaded. But it also, at the time when I was younger and I was doing crazy things, is extremely damaging. And you know, another concept that’s kind of relevant to the just like, “Nope, I’m gonna do this. I’m gonna do that,” you know, and like, “Oh no, I don’t wanna go the hard route,” and like get it all together. I mean, these kids are faced with social media that is showing them things that they’re, you know, there’s a guy, 22, driving a Ferrari. He’s got a sales program that he’s selling or he’s got a day trading system- Right … that he’s, promoting and you can buy his program and learn how to make a billion dollar. Okay, what cancer is that? I mean, that is a sickness for people to see, for 

[00:27:00] kids to see that, oh, this dude got it in one year. Yeah. Figured out this system and is now rolling around in money. I mean, there’s no way that you’re gonna be able to go for, okay, maybe you win the lotto- … or something. But like getting things together takes time, you know? And maybe for parents even this is something to consider too. Like even if they’re doing the right thing and they’re trying the right way and they’re going in the right direction, it will be a long time before- Mm-hmm … we see any of that payoff. Yeah. Right? It would be a long time. They will have to save. They will have to plan. There’s gonna be a setback, you know? And it’s just not, there’s, I say all the time, life is not a linear- Up route towards, okay, one step, next step, next step, next step. We would love that. Like, everybody would love that. In reality, for a lot of the kids, it’s take 
[00:28:00] one small step forward, crawl another small step forward, get sent back 40 feet. Yes. Huge setback, okay? And then- Yep … claw your way back slowly. Mm-hmm. And then another setback, okay? But then- Yes … learning from each one of these mistakes, you know? And I’ll say, like, when I got clean, I moved down to California. I got a job at Marshalls, okay? Was working hard there, diligently, closing people on credit cards. My responsibility was to ring people up at the register and get them to sign up for a credit card, okay? Right. I was killing it. And then one day I got fired because the customer paid with cash, and they told me, “Keep the change.” I’m broke. I’m need money, right? I keep the quarter or whatever it was because I was gonna say, and it was like 15 cents, right? Like, it was dumb. Less than a dollar. Yeah. Less than a dollar. I get fired, okay? That could set [00:29:00] off, I could see how that would set off a five-alarm fire in your head. Oh, absolutely. Right? Like, how did you get fired from your job? You were just killing it. Yep. You were showing up early, right? You were doing everything you should’ve done. Why’d you do this stupid little mistake? Oh my gosh. Okay? Yeah. And now he’s gonna relapse, and now he’s gonna start using, you know? And then the The movie in my head- Yeah … already has you dead in a ditch. Oh, it’s over. Yeah. Like, all bets are off, right? Yeah. Okay. What actually ended up happening is by that point I had settled into a mindset of, like, a clean mindset. Not, I’m not confusing myself every day with the weed and with all the other substances. And I had saved up, like, $3,000. I think it was, like, around three grand that I had saved up. I said, “Okay, I’m close to broke, but I’m not completely broke.” And I thought, “I’m gonna take this time and just calmly look for another job, and it’s gonna be a better job.” And so I took about 
[00:30:00] a couple days and I was at Walmart between there and when I started applying for new jobs, and I was walking around and I was thinking, I’m gonna apply for Walmart. I could probably get a promotion after a little while,” and, you know. But then I thought, “No, no, hell no. No. Like, we are not going to work at Walmart. Enzo, we are working in a better spot, okay? Like, you got fired for a crazy reason. Like, it was completely insane. The customer gave me- Right … their change. Okay. So that’s a signal. I was able to tell myself, “This is a signal. You’re gonna get- Mm … a better job.” Mm-hmm. And then that’s where I got the job where I was able to pay my lawyer. Remember what we were saying? Yes. Mm-hmm. And so I got a way better job, and I ended up making another step paying that lawyer, having him go handle my case. So this is the non-linearity of life. Yes. You do well, you get, you set back. You learn a little bit in the meantime while you were doing well, you get a better opportunity. Yeah. 
[00:31:00] Okay. So that was just- And- yeah … yeah. Quick side note on that for the parents that are listening whose kids have legal records. The other thing that you did with that job that you got is you disclosed that you had DUIs in Washington State- Mm-hmm … on the application, because it was for driving, right? The job involved driving. Mm. And I know a lot of parents worry, “My kid has a DUI. My kid has a felony. My kid ha-” Now, felonies are a little different, but right, we worry like, “Oh my gosh, they are never gonna get a good job because they have this.” And you disclosed that- Mm … and you still got the job that required driving as the- Yeah … key component of the job. So- Couldn’t believe it … and I- Couldn’t believe it … and I think that’s- Yeah … yeah, it’s really important to mention that because you were honest, you were living that kind of life, right? You were no longer- Yeah living this life of deception and all this stuff, and it turned out okay. And I think we- Mm … as parents often default to it is 
[00:32:00] not gonna turn out okay. Mm. It is gonna, there’s gonna be a disaster. There’s gonna be a thing. Again, like when you told me that you got fired, I literally had fast-forwarded the, played the whole movie forward, and you were dead- Here we go again with from fentanyl within three months. And so anyway, that’s a little bit of a tangent, but I think it’s super important. Okay. Yeah. So one of the things that kids probably can’t tell you, parent, is I’m trying Despite what it looks like . It looks like I’m sorry and I’m trying. Yes, exactly. Yeah. The other thing that you had mentioned once when we were talking is I think I said something like, “What were you thinking when you did XYZ?” And you said, “I wasn’t.” So maybe talk a little bit about how kids are feeling and what they might not be able to tell their parents about sort of what’s going on within them internally. Mm-hmm. Well, that’s exactly it, is that most of the time we think, “What the heck?” Like- 
[00:33:00] What were you thinking when you did that, right? When you drank a bottle of hand sanitizer. Wasn’t thinking. Right. It was not computing in my, my brain was not considering anything else except for that- Right … at the moment. Everything went out the window, right? And so, I mean, it’s a impulsivity thing. You don’t, you can’t… I mean, let’s, like, remember, ADHD is, you’ve got a lot of impulsivity inside there. There are a lot of times where these kids are just not considering what is going on. Yeah. And so, like, when I have a kid that now makes a mistake or whatever, I’m working with them, and I usually don’t ask, like, “Dude, what were you thinking?” ‘Cause you know the answer … I usually just say, “Okay. Okay. Yeah. You, so what, what happened?” You know? And like, over time that part of the brain 
[00:34:00] develops, and they’ll figure it out, right? But there’s a lot of times where it’s just not processing. There’s no consideration going on there. Yeah. And so you mix that in with influences who are providing opportunities to do really stupid things, you’re bound to get some kind of stupid actions at that point. Right. Right. So it’s just kind of the thing, yeah. Yeah. And the combination of the undeveloped brain and an ADHD brain that has that impulsivity is extra dangerous because there is literally no thinking going on and I did not, I think that’s one thing I wish in hindsight that I had known at the time when you were in this, is I did not have any clue about what the ADHD brain really was. And to some degree, there wasn’t as much information available as there is today, so I’m very- Sure … grateful for a lot of the 
[00:35:00] doctors that are really putting that information out there. But I was under the impression at the time that ADHD was just, like, you just couldn’t focus unless it was, like, on a video game, and then you were hyper-focused. But to me- Right … I did not understand anything about the impulsivity, about the inability to, you know, like, remove distractions, or out of sight, out of mind- Yeah … or the time blindness, which I should have known because- Yeah … your dad was many of those things. Yeah. And I lived with that for a long time, but I just didn’t understand that. Yeah. And so I think- I don’t- I’m sure you would probably agree that if a parent, if you’re feeling like there’s nothing you can do, you’ve got this kid who’s off the rails and doing these crazy things and blowing up their life, and there’s really, you know, you’re doing all the things that you can do from a motivation standpoint and a connection standpoint, one thing that you can do is really learn about the ADHD brain. And 

[00:36:00] I just say that blanket because I would say 90% of the kids in our, of the parents in our community have ADHD to some degree. So learn, and I will put links in the show notes to some of the great resources. Dr. Gabor Maté has an amazing book called Scattered Minds. Learn everything you can about ADHD and the brain, because it will explain a lot of what’s going on and a lot of what your kiddo’s trying to cope with from a day-to-day basis- Yeah and why substances work perfectly for a while. Yeah. Well, I’ll say this. There’s one thing, and I wish I had the study to reference, but I don’t. So, just again, just do the research, right? But- Yeah, we’ll, we’ll try to find it. There’s, I think there’s something like over 70% overlap of untreated ADHD- Yes and addiction. Yes. Okay? So I am a huge believer in medications. I don’t, like I am not saying, I’ve never 

[00:37:00] said and won’t say that nobody should be a, you know, medicating ADHD. Right. But it will self-medicate most of the time. Yes. One way or the other, the kid will figure a way out to calm themselves down and to control the mind, and they’re not equipped to do it with the only the resources that they’re just left with, right? No, no. And so, like there’s a million tricks that I have, you know, like if, using my environment, right? Like I’ll do- Right … some of these tricks. Like, first of all, lists. I write 100 lists. I have notebooks, like I have notebooks like this that- Yeah … I always buy a new one. I always get a new one as soon as I run out. I write everything down. Whiteboards. Okay, I have two, I have a whiteboard here and a whiteboard over there on both sides- Yeah … of my room so I can, I’m always seeing things And then the third thing is I use the environment. So I put, like one example is I’ll put my toothbrush… If I leave my toothbrush in the bathroom, it’s gone.
[00:38:00] It doesn’t click in my head. There’s no urgency that you- But if I have it right by my door on my dresser, and I pass by, I see my toothbrush, “Oh my gosh, yeah. Let me brush my teeth real quick.” Right. Yeah, so there, there are ways that you can get by. You know, I, obviously medication is my, you know, I wouldn’t ever say to just cut that out, not obviously for everybody- Right everybody’s gonna have a different thing, so don’t rely on me to make that decision. But there are ways to do it. And the other thing I’ll say is that, like, and I’ve said it before, if I could go back and have a little bit of input on what kind of genes I’m gonna have before I’m born, I would beg God to please put the ADHD in there. Leave it in. Because now this, and most parents will probably understand. If your kid likes something, they can’t leave it alone. Yeah. Right? Skateboarding, whatever it is. For me, it’s golf. I can’t leave it alone. Yeah. I can’t leave it alone. Yeah. Like, it will keep me up at night 

[00:39:00] thinking about the thing that I like to do. Right. But it, and it’s hyper-vigilant focus. Can’t get enough of it. Yeah. But if it’s a fill out the packet and, you know, color in the thing- … and show me what cell does what- … in the human body, whatever, forget it. Yeah. Forget it. Give me three reasons why that’s important- Right … for me to know today. Right. Remember the ice cube math problem? Oh, yeah. You got that problem like three years in a row. That is a good one. I thought it was gonna be the end of us. Yeah. It was terrible … but yes, the ADHD thing is, and what you said is important. I wanna go back and highlight this because you said, “The things that I like, I like, and they, I feel them as much more enjoyable.” Like, if I like ice cream To a 10, you’re, and you like ice cream, you’re gonna be at a 20. Yeah. And the same thing goes for drugs and alcohol. Absolutely. And so that’s why, A, it solves a problem in their brain for a while. I’m not saying 
[00:40:00] it’s the right solution. It is a problematic solution, but it is a solution for a while. And because the ADHD brain is lacking dopamine, it overfills the dopamine, so it meets that need, and they are going to love it more than the normal person. So if I have a glass of wine and I’m like, “Oh, that’s really nice,” and you have a glass of wine, it’s gonna be 10 times, like, “Oh my gosh, I really love this glass of wine.” Mm-hmm. So- It’s the best. Yes. I think that’s- The best … that’s the importance. And I can hear parents, because I would’ve been thinking this, like, “Great, I do and I can say all these things to my kid.” Mm-hmm. And they just roll their eyes or they slam the door, they punch a hole in the wall. And I think it has to at times come from somebody like you who has been there, who’s a little bit closer in age to be like, “Dude, you’re gonna go two steps forward and then you’re gonna get blown back 40 feet.” Mm-hmm. It’s okay. That’s just… It’s okay. Yeah. But when we say it as 

[00:41:00] parents, they don’t connect. You said something the other day when we were talking, do you remember how you talked about, like, the closeness in age thing or- Mm-hmm … what was that? I can’t remember exactly- Mm … what, what that was. Yeah. So I was, a while ago, I was in a group at the program I was working at- And I’ll never forget, ’cause it was information for me. I said, “Oh my gosh, that’s why I didn’t listen to my mom or my dad.” But like for example, I listened to Janessa, my cousin, when she told me, “You gotta go home, dude.” Right. Like when I had run off. Yeah. Okay. So kids subconsciously are aware that their parents are going to die and they’re not from the same generation. And so at a certain point, subconsciously, the input from parents, from the generation above, it has a lower weighting in the brain as far as like guidance, right? Mm. Mm-hmm. Because- That’s right … they’re from a past generation, and they’re going to be that generation 

[00:42:00] forever. They don’t understand exactly what it’s like to be in this generation with this environment, right? They are from a different whole era. Right. So but people who are just slightly ahead in age and people who are the same age are the people who those kids in their brain subconsciously again, they’re going to be side by side with those people for the entirety of their lives. Right. And so the weighting is a lot higher as far as like, should I listen to that? Is that actually something that’s gonna be useful for me to do? Right. And so that’s really the whole concept behind mentorship and helping kids kinda get a roadmap. Like, what, where am I going here? What should I think about? How should I think about this? Yeah. That’s really the idea there is to be at that kind of input from somebody that’s not too far ahead, but is generally, you know- Yeah trusted to be able to be like, “Dude, yeah, like listen, maybe not drive while you’re hammered,” or whatever the case 

[00:43:00] may be, you know? Right. Right. Mm. Yeah, I thought that was so interesting. I was glad you told me that because it made a lot of sense, and I think the fact that it is subconscious, like no kid at- 18 is thinking, “Oh, my parents…” You know, they may be saying, “Oh, my parents are so out of touch,” or, “They don’t get it,” but they’re not understanding maybe the, like, more primal reason why that’s happening. Mm-hmm. So I thought that was super interesting. Mm. And it does make sense why, like when you were struggling and I hired a mentor, I don’t think it was a super long relationship, I don’t even remember, but at least you would go have coffee with this guy. Mm-hmm. And I couldn’t figure it out at first ’cause I was like, “Oh, like I’m trying to connect with him. His dad’s doing a better job at connecting with him.” Mm. “But he’ll go meet with this guy who’s complete random stranger.” Yeah. So then that kind of all made sense of why that- Yeah … would work out. Exactly. So yeah, ’cause I know, there are times where you… Is there anything else actually that, you wanna share that kids who are actively 

[00:44:00] using and apparently blowing up their lives- Mm … might wish their parents knew or aren’t really able to articulate to their parents? Really, the big thing is, like, what I would’ve said is, “I’m trying.” Yeah. “I, I’m sorry that my way is not, you know, the way that you guys want, but I’m trying something, and I just don’t know.” And I think- Yeah When I overdosed and I was taught to walk again, and I- everything kind of, it was a legitimate painful month and a half, and I wasn’t able to walk fast for a year, and it, brutal, right? I was saying, “Okay, if I just survived that,” I remember in the hospital, I’m like, “There’s just gotta be a reason why I’m out here, and maybe this drug-using thing and this lifestyle is not gonna be the way… Maybe this isn’t it,” 
[00:45:00] right? Right. “And let me just maybe I’ll just try to figure something else out.” Mm-hmm. And so at that point, I had realized in the hospital, learning to walk again, lear- you know, all the pain. I said, “Okay, if I just survived that,” and they’re telling me there was a huge chance that I wouldn’t have made it, “there’s got to be some reason why I’m still here.” And so that’s you know, I wish I could show these kids, like, “Dude, there is a reason why you’re here.” I wish I had a explanation, like- Mm-hmm … this is your perfect route, right? But everybody has their own route that they’re gonna go, and it’s about trying to help them figure that out.But that was really what it was, was that I said, “I don’t really know what I’m supposed to be doing here.” Right. I don’t know. I, again, not a good athlete, not a good scholar, right? Never have figured anything out that I’m really awesome at. But drugs are what I like, and I’m seem to be pretty good at that. And then after the overdose, that was what shifted it to be like, 

[00:46:00] is that really what you think this is all about here? Are the drugs really what it is? Mm-hmm. And I just said, “Okay, gosh, let me try something else. Let me just consider maybe there’s a different way.” And then that’s when all the things that I was learning in the boarding school, and the wilderness, and the therapy, and all that, I just said, “Okay, let me just-” think about what they were saying. Let me try. You know, go back and remember. Yeah. And so for all the parents that have something, like their kids, you know, have been through all these treatments and all of this, these things, those things are still in them. They will remember the concepts and the- Mm … things. It’s not like it’s all just been deleted, okay? I tried my best to push it all away and to ignore it all. But when I decided, “Okay, here we g-,” like, “Let me try and live without it. Let me try and figure it out, and just maybe there’s something else out here that I should be doing,” that’s when all those concepts came flooding back to me. Mm. And I 
[00:47:00] began using those. And so that’s what pushed me so far ahead of even the people that didn’t get those kind of, that kind of help, right? Yeah. Of the learning and the things that are taught in those programs. So, I’m a huge believer in it, and it’s just a matter of getting to that point where it’s like, “I’m gonna use that skill.” Right. Or, “I’m gonna think about this kind of… I have a feeling right now, like let me try and think about that feeling and process it a little bit,” you know? Yeah. I was gonna ask you, and I think that’s, it just shows the power of the human body that you started learning those concepts at 16 in wilderness therapy. Mm. You were 19 when you overdosed twice. And in those three years in between, there was not a lot of time when your brain was not under the influence of some pretty heavy substances, and yet you could still remember the things- Mm … that you had been taught. So I think that’s really encouraging because parents do fear, “Okay, we’ve been to 

[00:48:00] this, we’ve been to that. We’re on our fifth program.” Really? Like, really? Mm. And so it’s really encouraging to hear you say that yes, those things can come back. The brain does remember. If you had to pick one, and this is totally unfair to put you on the spot, but if you had to pick one thing that had been imparted to you in a program or by somebody, it doesn’t even have to be in one- Mm of the programs that you were in, that came in handy when you were learning to walk and brush your teeth and tell time and all of that, what’s something that comes to mind? Well, if I had to choose one It would be mindfulness, for sure. Really? Mindfulness, yeah. Say more about that. So it is super easy to get caught up in, “Oh my gosh, my boss talked to me with the wrong tone,” and I think, “Oh my ,” like 

[00:49:00] I might be getting fired, and like, “Oh my gosh, now how am I gonna pay the bills, and how am I gonna do this? And then you get this cascade, right? But if you’re able to step back a little bit, I kind of explain it like a third-person viewer- Mm-hmm … being mindful. Like you’re a third-person viewer on what’s going on in this situation. Usually if you’re able to step outside of your situation and just look at what is going on in the world that you just happen to be a part of at the moment- It makes it a lot easier to see, okay, maybe this isn’t actually as critical of an emergency. Mm. Right? And so being mindful and just understanding, like, what is going on in my head, where am I, what am I doing? Like, where am I trying to go? What is critical for today? Like, what am I doing today? And, like, is that thought that I had about, you know, some argument that I got into with somebody from two years ago, is that really critical- Right to what’s going on right now? Mm-hmm. And so to have that, like, third 

[00:50:00] person viewer behind your mind- Yeah … that’s just looking at what’s all going on, that, I’ve gotta say, that’s been the most impactful one. Mm. Yeah. Love it. Love it. And that also applies to parents, so good- Mm-hmm. Anybody can do that, yeah good wisdom. All right. Well, thank you so much for hopping on. I’ll let you go play golf now and- Mm-hmm … enjoy the rest of your day. Yeah. And as always, we appreciate you. We’ll put your contact information in the show notes, Life Strategies Mentors, so you… Oh, maybe you wanna give people a quick update on what’s going on with your mentoring business. Well, yeah. Yeah, thanks. I’ve just been… I’m at capacity, and so we’re expanding. And so two awesome guys are with me now, excellent professional experience, excellent life experience, right? Both guys- Crucial. … been through it. Yeah. Been through it hard, came out the other side, went back similar to me to work in the programs and ended up killing it. And 

[00:51:00] so, yeah, we’re definitely doing that, and obviously just honestly, what I’ll say about it is I can’t believe it. Yeah. I can’t believe that I deserve to be in this situation. I don’t… Honestly, I don’t know why. I don’t like, I don’t know how or why I’ve gotten to this point, but the fact that I am means that I should probably just keep doing it, right? Just keep- Right, right. … going and trying. Right? It’s working. And so, like, yeah. And so I’m bringing these two guys on, and they’re in the same spot where they’re just trying to return the favor and make sure that they’re doing well in the world and helping other kids do well. And so it’s super exciting, yeah. And I love ’em both. So. That’s amazing. Yeah. Amazing. Life Strategies, lifestrategiesmentors.com. Yeah. But we’ll put it in the show notes. So if you do have a young person of the male gender, I would say- Male gender reach out to Enzo, and he’s got this team that they can help out. And being that younger generation, right, that can- Yeah that’s just a bit 
[00:52:00] closer to where your kid might be, where they might even have a crack open to listen to some of the earned wisdom that you have. So. Yeah. Thank you. Absolutely. Love you so much. Love you too. Have a great rest of your day.