Watching From The Sidelines; A Sibling’s Vantage Point On His Brother’s Risky Lifestyle, Drug Use And Recovery, with Marco Narciso

SPEAKERS: Marco Narciso, Brenda Zane
[00:00:00] Marco: So you learn to just go through problems and you don’t even look at them as problems because the last thing that you went through wasn’t as hard as this next thing that you’re going to go through. So you just, you really just become immune to certain things and it just makes you stronger. But I’m just grateful for it because growing up and seeing him do certain things that he I wouldn’t say it put pressure on me, but I think it just directly showed me like him telling me, Hey, little brother, don’t do this and don’t do that. 


We, we never really talked about it. I think it was just like actions. People always say, actions speak louder than words, but he literally just showed me without telling me like, this is what you’re not supposed to do. 


[00:00:44] Brenda: Welcome to HopeStream, the podcast for parents of kids who are misusing drugs or alcohol, or who are in active addiction, treatment, or early recovery. I’m your host, Brenda Zane, fellow parent to a child who struggled. So I’m right there with you. If you’re enjoying the podcast and wanna hang out with me and a bunch of other great moms, after the episodes, you can check out the stream. 


It’s a positive online space where you can get support and take a breather from the stresses of dealing with your son or daughter. Just go to the stream community.com to learn more. Now, let’s get into today’s episode. Hello friends. Welcome back. Today, you are going to get to hear from the most special guest I’ve ever had on the podcast. 


My son, Marco. As part of my work to highlight the sibling experience, I asked Marco if he would come on the podcast and share his experience because I thought it could really help you understand what our other kids go through when we have one who is struggling and causing a lot of chaos in the home. 


Marco. Marco. Marco. Marco lived through the experience of having his brother veer off track into a really scary and confusing lifestyle, getting into drugs and watching all of this happen from the sidelines. He watched me and how I coped with the challenge. And so knowing that he has this up close front row experience with it, I thought it could be helpful for you to hear. 


I also thought it would be helpful because he went through the thick of this while he was in middle and high school, but he’s now 21, and so he has some perspective and some distance from it, and he can look at things from a young adult lens now. It’s an incredibly special episode. I think, even though I might be slightly biased because he is my son, I think Margot brings Some incredible wisdom and insight for us from this and it was just really cool to have him on the show So now please listen in to this very special conversation with my son Marco Narciso 


Welcome Marco to my most special guest I’ve ever had on hope stream yet Thank you for taking part of your day talking to your mom You Which we do every day, cause I’m so blessed that you still live with us. I know a lot of parents don’t feel like that about their 21 year olds. They’d rather have them out, but I’m very, very lucky to have you live with us. 


But we were chatting before this and it was like, we don’t talk about stuff like this a lot. I think it’s good that we’re doing this actually. What do you think?  


[00:03:42] Marco: Yeah, I do too.  


[00:03:43] Brenda: We happen to be in separate houses at the moment, even though we do live together. but this is when we could make it happen because you are a busy man. 


So why don’t you tell us, just a little bit about you, who you are, what you do, just give us the download on Marco first, and then we’ll dive into some of the other stuff.  


[00:04:03] Marco: All right. my name is Marco and, right now I’m a barber, I cut hair. It was my main, full time job, grew up playing sports, basketball, soccer, swimming, all that. 


And yeah, now I, graduated high school and just continue to work.  


[00:04:21] Brenda: Yes. And you do a little more than cut hair. I know that. Yeah. What else do you do?  


[00:04:28] Marco: I’ve always been into, sneakers and fashion. when I was growing up, I really got into shoes and collecting the Nikes and Jordans. Yeah. And, recently just, within my hair studio, we, we started selling shoes and clothes, so shifting into a boutique slash sneaker store, inside of a barber shop. 


So that’s been pretty cool.  


[00:04:52] Brenda: It’s such a cool concept. And I know, I have the bias cause I’m your mom, but also, I think you have a, an ability to see, see things that people want and create those, even if they don’t exist yet, because you were even doing that back in, when did you start with your sneakers? 


When did that, was that like eighth grade?  


[00:05:13] Marco: It was seventh grade. I remember my, my first pair of Rio Jordans. Was in seventh grade.  


[00:05:18] Brenda: And that was a big deal. So it’s been a while. Totally changed the game. And then you were buying and selling them even in middle school and high school. So this isn’t like you just popped open a shoe store. 


This is something that you’ve been doing for a long time. And, the ins and outs and, What’s real and what’s fake. And I don’t even know how you know all of that, but it’s pretty cool. I think it’s also interesting. And people ask me this all the time. so I’d love to hear from your viewpoint, you went to a private college prep high school. 


[00:05:53] Marco: Yeah.  


[00:05:54] Brenda: I think we all, at least I will speak for myself, imagine that you would go to college and then you ended up not going that direction. Tell us about that kind of thought, what was going through your mind when you were in high school because that was a pretty big deal at the high school you went to. 


everybody went off to these big colleges.  


[00:06:12] Marco: Yeah. for me, it was like, Before I realized that I wasn’t really going to go to college, I think for me, it was just like, I was cutting hair as more of a hobby and. It was just fitting in with what I was doing, playing basketball on the team. And I think it just was like, everyone around me was either getting scholarships for athletics or for academics. 


And I was just I don’t really know, I’m, I’m on the basketball team, but I’m not getting playing time. I don’t have a scholarship. So I was getting to the age where it’s you’re about to graduate and you don’t know what you’re going to do. So I realized I’m cutting hair. 


I might as well just. see how far this can take me and really just start taking it serious. So I think it was mainly just trying to capitalize on opportunity. I wouldn’t say I didn’t want to go to college because I still to the day, think going to college would be fun, but I think it was just, for me, it didn’t make sense. 


Like I didn’t have something that I really wanted to do in college. And I think I really felt like. I really did cutting hair. So it just, I, I grew like a passion for it throughout high school. And I saw that, there’s all my friends around me are going to college, but. 


I felt that I had like something going for myself, so I just had to take a risk, but it just seemed like a forced situation and I just would rather go with something that I like doing. And it was actually working. And that’s the other thing is, going to school. With a, with an idea of what you want to do as good as it’s a great thing. 


But like I said, I didn’t really have an idea, but I did know I liked cutting hair. So I knew I wanted to do that at some extent. I didn’t think I was going to become a full time barber, but that kind of happened. So I think it was just, yeah, going to school, it didn’t seem like it was for me, but, it was definitely a crazy risk going to a. 


College prep school, and then, you don’t go to college. It just doesn’t really seem like the conventional thing to do.  


[00:08:19] Brenda: And I remember a fairly awkward, meeting with your counselor, where we went to talk to her because, and we’ll get into this too, you were having to make this decision right at the time when your brother overdosed. 


Yeah. Yeah. And so I think that for me also played a big part in the way I handled your decision to not go to college, and we can get into that. But I do remember going to that meeting because your school was so college focused. And they did such a great job at it, like they, gave you guys a lot of help and all of that, but if that wasn’t your path, that wasn’t your path, and I’m, I’m really proud of you for sticking to that and not just feeling oh, everybody is going off to college, I just have to do that, because also I’ve been going to this four year private college prep school, because I think it prepared you for what you’re doing now. 


Yeah, for  


[00:09:17] Marco: sure.  


[00:09:18] Brenda: All right. So that is you. And if anybody’s ever in Seattle and you want a nice pair of shoes, I can point you in the right direction to a very cool place. And you can get a haircut at the same time. Let’s just talk for a few minutes about your experience in growing up with a brother who was, so he was he was, he still is two years older than you going through that experience of growing up with him, getting into a pretty crazy lifestyle, just maybe talk about that kind of how you observed that and what things stand out to you as you guys were growing up. 


we lived in a fairly contained neighborhood, I guess I would say, we had a very close group of friends. You guys lived in a neighborhood where you had a lot of freedom to kind of roam and stuff because there was a lot of kids in the neighborhood. But then as you got older and as he got older, he started moving to a different friend group. 


And then, clearly got into a bad group of people and you weren’t that much younger than him. So you were viewing all of this from a fairly close distance and obviously living in the house. What were you feeling during that time as you saw him move from Being one of the neighborhood kids, who had a lot of fun, just innocent fun. 


Like you guys would have these crazy airsoft wars in the neighborhood and scavenger hunts and riding your bikes and going to the pool. What was, what was that like to see that?  


[00:10:54] Marco: I think it was, it was, it was confusing at a young age because at one point. My brother and I had a lot of the same friends, like a lot of his friends just ended up being my friends because I was around my brother. 


So when we were, we used to longboard all the time and skate, we used to skate everywhere. So I think that’s where I really started being around his friends. And, we had a lot of, we just spent a lot of time with the same people, but I also had my own friends from my grade. So I think it was just, it was confusing because as you see, You’ll, you’ll be around and you’ll see his friends out and, you’ll see, his, other group of friends and it’s just, as you see them grow from one side to the other, you don’t really know. 


If he’s still cool with that dude, you don’t know if, if he still messes with these people. So when I’m around people know that I’m his little brother. So it was just sometimes it was confusing. It’s is this person mad at my brother? Is he, do they have problems or are they cool? 


Are they friends? So I think it was just like with a small community and everyone knows each other when he started messing with other people in a different friend group. It was awkward. I would say sometimes when like I would see one of his friends that he used to mess with and then now he completely separated from them, but I would still be in contact with them or I would be hanging out with their little brother because he’s my friend or, it was just a small community or just so tight, but at the same time it wasn’t at one point. 


So I think I would say a confusing and awkward was a good way to say that. Like timeframe, it was definitely, definitely interesting.  


[00:12:46] Brenda: Interesting is a good way to put it. Did you ever feel scared about the, the friends that he was hanging out with or things that he was doing?  


[00:12:54] Marco: I don’t, I don’t think I would say scared for myself because I think on my end, I was wherever, whoever my brother was cool with, I felt like I was cool with. 


because they’re not going to mess with me because they’re my brother’s friends, right? So like i’m the little brother, you know that if anything they would look out for me so for for myself, I think I it gave me like a Almost like a pass. Sometimes it was like, oh you’re you’re his little brother. 


I’m not gonna mess with him I’m not  


[00:13:21] Brenda: gonna yeah,  


[00:13:22] Marco: i’m not messing with  


[00:13:22] Brenda: you  
 
[00:13:23] Marco: It was very very interesting, but I wouldn’t say I was scared for myself or if anything I was just scared of who he was around mostly Because I knew, I knew what his old friends were like and what his new friends, I didn’t really know what his new friends were like. 


So I would say just the unknown of not knowing what he, you know what he was doing before and then now with these new people, you don’t really know exactly what’s going on, but you just know that they’re, His new friends. So I would, I wasn’t really, I wasn’t really scared necessarily, but I think it definitely had like the unknown factor been there. 


[00:13:59] Brenda: Yeah, it was definitely a shift from our little, we called it the village because it was such a tight knit community. But what was your, what, how would you describe your relationship? With him before he wandered on into this new territory. and then how that felt because, it was a pretty big shift. 


[00:14:21] Marco: It just went from us, running around the neighborhood and hanging out with our friends to me just going and kicking it with my, my friend group from school. And he would be, he would be out doing whatever with whoever. so it went from seeing him a lot to not really seeing him very often. 


Yeah. And I would run into him in like the most random places with with other friends, like with other people that I didn’t even know. So it was just, it was tough a little bit, just like not being around, not knowing what he was doing. But in my head, I just knew like he was, he was doing whatever he wanted to do and handled his business that way. 


So I just let, I just let it happen because. As a little brother, there’s nothing I can really do. what could I really say to, to, your bigger brother? Hey, bro, stop doing so I just just let it happen, just roll with the punches, is the best way to put it. 


[00:15:18] Brenda: What do you, what do you remember? Kind of the, the vibe in our household being when he, because it got to a point where before we sent him to wilderness, things were pretty bad. he had run away a couple times. What do you remember from a family perspective? How was that feeling or what, what was going on in, in our house? 


[00:15:40] Marco: I would say it was very, sporadic at moments, or it would get really intense sometimes, at the most random time. It would only be random because I’m looking at it from my point of view, so I don’t really know what’s going on, and then all of a sudden he comes home, and then there’s a whole argument, and I’m just like, me and my friend are downstairs, just Yo, I don’t know what’s going on. 


So I would say it was it was always a surprise. And even my friends remembered some of these moments where, he would come home super late at night. We would sleep downstairs. So in his room was downstairs. So sometimes we’d come down, we’d be downstairs and he would come down the stairs and go into his room. 


It was kind of like, we already knew that there was something that we could feel the tense, like the intensity. around the house, it was, I don’t know, I just. Got used to it, but it was just, he was messing up or always getting into something. So there was always an argument or some type of, some type of conversation, but I would say it was just wild at the house. 


Sometimes it wasn’t like, I would say, I would say wild in the sense of Normally you would be there when the problem started, you would really understand the situation. But for me, for me, I’m not knowing what the problem is. I just know that there is a problem. So from, from my point of view, I’m just like, okay, there’s a problem. 


They’re handling it their way. And then I’m just on the side and I have to just see it from the sideline and play it from the sideline,  


[00:17:20] Brenda: Yeah, no, that makes sense. And I’ve heard that from other people who’ve lived through this with their siblings is because I think as parents, we don’t do a great job of explaining like we never sat down and said, Okay, Marco, here is what’s going on. 


Until I think he went to wilderness and we’ll, we’ll talk about that in a second, but they say the same thing. I knew there was a problem, but I didn’t know what it was, which was almost worse than if I just knew what was going on. So I think there’s a level of uncertainty that you’re, you’re living with. 


Cause it’s wait a minute, something is wrong here, but I don’t really know what it is, which can’t be a good feeling to live  


[00:17:58] Marco: with. it’s just Not only do you not know what the problem is, if you don’t, if you don’t know what the problem is, you can’t really begin to like, think of a solution. 


So for anyone sitting back looking at the problem, it’s I feel useless because I can’t, I can’t really help if I don’t know what the problem is. So I think that’s one of the, one, probably one of the bigger things is just you want to help, but at the same time, you’re not really involved with the problem, but you’re in the house as the problem is going on. 


So it’s it’s like you. You don’t know when to jump in or you don’t know how to jump in. And I think, I think that’s probably a huge thing for a lot of people is you want to help, but you just don’t know where to start or you don’t want to make it even worse, maybe, or there’s just a lot of things that could go wrong. 


So for me personally, I just sat back and, I knew you were really, there was some tough things, but I knew how strong you were, so I knew you would handle it. And. I just had to let things happen sometimes, which was definitely hard, like one of the hardest things, is just letting things happen. 


I know, I know you say this all the time, it’s like you just have to let people do certain things to, to learn from it. There’s just no way around it, but sometimes that’s the best thing to do.  


[00:19:17] Brenda: Yeah. And it’s so painful to have to do that. And I think it can look like, and this is why I tell people on this podcast and in my community to really try to communicate that to the other siblings in the house to say, Here’s what’s going on. 


And you have to do it in an age appropriate way. So if they’re seven or eight years old, you’re probably not going to go into the same depth of explanation as if they’re 14 or 15, but to say, this is what’s going on. And we, and here’s our strategy. We’re letting this person experience the natural consequences of what their actions are doing. 


Like when your brother stopped going to school. I didn’t try to force him to go to school because I knew that there were natural consequences that would take place that were way more effective than anything I could do because nothing I did mattered, right? There was no punishment that or anything that I could do that was changing him. 


But to a kid in the house, that looks like you’re not doing anything.  


[00:20:15] Marco: Yeah.  


[00:20:16] Brenda: I don’t know if you remember the morning that after we had him picked up to go to wilderness therapy And I came in and talked to you and I just said listen, we we’ve had your brother taken to a safe place He’s in utah. 


He’s gonna get some help out there and he’s safe And what was what was that like for you to hear that?  


[00:20:37] Marco: I think it was It was scary at first. It was definitely, cause it’s whoa, okay, there’s something going on. Like for real. this isn’t just a, go to your room and you’re grounded or something. 


It’s like, it’s oh, okay. So you guys, he, there’s like an action being taken. So I think it was scary. Cause I was, I was worried for him just as much as I was worried for, you guys or any, any of us. Cause I just didn’t really know how, what, how serious that meant it was, but it was obviously a pretty big deal. 


So I think I was scared at first, but after I sat down with it for a little bit, I was like, okay, that’s really good for him because he’s out of this area, he’s in some type of professional help. So I think it was definitely a relief to know that he was somewhere. Besides here or whatever he was doing, but I think initially it definitely scared me because it was like, oh, shoot, this is really a problem. 


[00:21:36] Brenda: that is a big deal. and, and for parents who are in the process of making that decision, it’s an incredibly hard decision to make because you never want to have your kid taken out of your home, to live somewhere else. But we had just felt like it was getting too dangerous to, To let him continue to be where he was and doing what he was doing. 


[00:21:57] Marco: Exactly.  


[00:21:58] Brenda: And I remember you bouncing back really quickly to The guy I had known before, like you just, it seemed like it must’ve, you must’ve processed that and gotten to the point where you’re like, okay, this is probably a good thing because you just seem to lighten up and be a little happier and a little bit more carefree. 


And that was the way that you had always been. And I thought, oh my gosh, I didn’t even realize what was happening to you because you’re absorbing all of the crazy that’s going on. So when this was all happening, you were. Like 7th, 8th, 7th, 8th, 9th grade was when it started. Were you talking to anybody about it or were you just rolling with it and this is just some weird going on in my family? 


What was, what was happening as far as you having an outlet? To to share this  


[00:22:54] Marco: I guess my outlet Was not really a person but I think it was just like a self motivation For because I think I deal with a lot of things myself So I think I took whatever I was whatever I was feeling And I just used it to feel me to do whatever else I was doing. 


I wasn’t really talking to anyone specifically, maybe, maybe some of my friends, like my really close friends that had mutual friends within my brother’s friend group. I think it helped because, my friend over here had an older brother the same age as my brother, so he felt the same way I felt in certain aspects. 


I would say I had a friend or two that I would, I wouldn’t just straight up talk about. what’s going on or whatever, but I think it was just good to have those relationships to where, you feel like you’re not the only one that has an older brother or anybody that’s going through the same problems, but I think I just handled it more so through myself. 


And I was playing sports at the time because as you’re going through all these problems, like you still have to do everything that you’re doing. So I just use that to I’m not going to focus on all these problems. I’m just going to That’s exactly why I focused on, sports or focused on, other like things that I like doing. 


So I just dealt with it with myself really. I’m also not the biggest talker as  


[00:24:27] Brenda: Really?  


[00:24:28] Marco: So just deal with it to myself and like use that as feel to, focus on the better things, I think is what it really was.  


[00:24:39] Brenda: I remember you spent a lot of time at the YMCA, which was awesome. 


It was so good because it really got you, got you out of the house where the crazy was happening and it was such a positive experience. Group of people that were there. you were able to play basketball. You made a lot of great friends. And so for me, I was so glad about that because it was like, that’s where you need to be. 


And, and I could see you internalizing it, and really saying, wow. And, and maybe in a way that’s a blessing to, to see okay, that’s, that’s Maybe a direction I don’t want to go. So yeah, it was, it was good to see you channeling yourself in that way. And I’m sure that helped other friends that you had who were also maybe going through stuff that you didn’t know about to see you because you’ve always been a leader. 


I remember clearly the kindergarten teacher pulling me aside and saying, okay, everybody, Marco’s like the Pied Piper. He, everybody’s going to follow him, so he needs to make really good decisions. And I was like, oh, okay, but I heard that. Every single grade since kindergarten, Marco’s the leader here. 


And so we need to make sure that Marco’s making good decisions because everyone’s going to follow him. So I think in a way that probably also helped some of your other friends to say, okay, this, Marco’s got some stuff going on in his life, but he’s here every night shooting hoops and he’s here. 


Doing these things. so I think that was probably good all around and then, obviously he went to wilderness, came home. There was still ongoing crazy. And then he overdosed, in 2017, after a lot of just no awful years. What was that like as you got older? Because now you’re a senior in high school. 


So you clearly know more that’s going on. It’s feeling more serious because he was, at a kind of at a whole different level. What was that like?  


[00:26:48] Marco: I would say it was, again, like really scary. It was also just a buildup of, like you said, problems throughout the years. So I would say almost wasn’t even a surprise. 


I would, I would say it was more like a, okay, like now it’s now it got to that level where you’re like, okay, it didn’t get better. it, it clearly got, it clearly got worse. So I think for me, as I was growing up with it, it was a, that it was like just a buildup. so when it happened, it was like. 


I had never thought about that happening. when it did, it was obviously like to anyone, it would be a shock and it would be really scary. So I think it was, it wasn’t as. like I said, it wasn’t too much of a surprise, but it’s still, when it happens, it’s going to shock you. I think it was very like it was just a crazy time because I don’t even remember what I was doing. 


I’m pretty sure I was still working at the school And I was still, you know graduating it was senior year and stuff So I had all my things or everything that I was trying to do go on at the same time When it happened it just put everything to a stop. I wasn’t really worried about anything else. 


But yeah, I was, it was definitely really scary and you just don’t know what’s going to happen next. You don’t really know what to expect. So when it did happen, it was just you take it day by day and just, I wasn’t really thinking about the next day. I’m just thinking about what’s going to happen today. 


[00:28:20] Brenda: Yeah. And you were when, when he had his last overdose, cause he had two in that week, the one on the Friday, you were actually in California with your dad visiting colleges. Cause at that time we think you were, you were still. oh, maybe I’ll go to college. I don’t know. You, you can tell me, but we had, a full week of college visits set up for you in California and Arizona. 


And you, I think had gone to one school, one campus tour, and then you got the phone call. Actually, you got the first, did you get the first text about him overdosing? I feel like you did.  


[00:29:00] Marco: Yeah. It was crazy. I honestly forgot that that’s how it happened.  


[00:29:05] Brenda: It  
 
[00:29:05] Marco: was, I literally took one college visit and yeah, it’s crazy that that the timing just worked out like that because we took our first visit at San Diego State. 


And I want to say the next night I got a, I got a text message from a friend. Like I said, a mutual friend, I get a text message saying, Hey, what’s your mom’s phone number? Like you’re, your brother’s in the hospital and, I need to, I need to talk to your mom saying, who is this? what is going on? 


what do you mean, what do you mean my brother’s in the hospital? So it was kind of like, I didn’t really know what to think. I immediately figured out who it was and got them on the phone, but they didn’t want to answer the phone. They just wanted to text. And then I realized who it was. I didn’t even know if any of this was true, so I figured out who it was, and then I immediately, and I didn’t know how serious it was, so I, I immediately sent the number to you and I tell my dad, yo, I just got this message, I don’t know what it means, I don’t know how serious it is, if it’s even true, but this is, this is what I just got told, so we need to, call somebody. 


So yeah, the phone calls were made and, and then that was it, that was the, the one college visit. And yeah, I ended up booking a flight the next, the next flight out to Seattle.  


[00:30:26] Brenda: Yeah, it was, it was intense and you and your dad got to the hospital and by then he, he was still in the ICU. He was still on life support, and, and we didn’t know, like you said, you just go minute by minute because you don’t know what’s going to happen. 


And I think that was For me, like once you get there, once you’re sitting in the hospital with one of your family members on life support, life gets really real, really fast. What was that like for you in the hospital? Because you were at the hospital, you didn’t leave. you came on your spring break. 


So this was your spring break of your senior year. Senior, was it your senior year? See, it’s all a blur. It was. I was taking my college  


[00:31:14] Marco: visits.  


[00:31:15] Brenda: So your whole spring break, you sat in the  


[00:31:17] Marco: hospital. I know you were, I know you really didn’t leave. So I don’t even want to take that credit because I was going, I went home a couple nights and whatnot. 


But yeah, you were there. I remember you didn’t, I was worried because I was like, I wanted you to go. I don’t I wanted you to come home at the same time. I knew that that’s the better place to be at. But, you were telling me, go home and, just try to, relax or do whatever, try to try to be normal. 


But I remember going remember it was spring break because I don’t think I had basketball the whole spring break. And, I came back from, from, from spring break and my coach was like, Oh, how was, how was spring break? How was San Diego? you were, you were out in San Diego visiting colleges and stuff. 


And I was like, yeah, it really wasn’t actually, it was a long week for sure. But yeah, being at the hospital, I would say it was like my first day there, it was just, I don’t even know what I was feeling. I think it’s just  


[00:32:21] Brenda: it was just so surreal. There’s  


[00:32:22] Marco: so many like things that you’re thinking about. 


So I don’t think I really had one emotion and I think it was just like, Everything built up from the first moment, the first argument that you had, or the first time we found out anything about what he was doing, I think it was like, from that moment all the way to that, to the day he overdosed, I think it was just like, just a whole bunch of everything that you went through just went through your brain at that same time, and you’re just thinking wow, this all really just happened, I don’t even know what’s going on right now. 


I think, like you said, just second by second, you just it’s just a lot of stuff going through your brain.  


[00:33:01] Brenda: And it’s such a weird environment being in an ICU room because there’s so much going on, with doctors and nurses and it’s almost wait a minute, wait a minute. This is my brother or this is my son laying in this bed, it’s just, it’s such a mental trip to be there. 


yeah, we were there for a long time, and as people know, if you have listened to the first episode or, a couple of other episodes that I’ve done or read, read our story. This guy, your brother, pulled through. We don’t know if it’s because he’s such a I don’t know. He’s such a strong personality,  


[00:33:40] Marco: hard headed,  


[00:33:42] Brenda: hard headed is a good way to put it. 


I think a combination of that, I think a combination of God wanting him to be here for sure. And I think he’s gonna do some, some amazing work in his life, but he did make it through that. And, you were there for, At least the first week I know in the hospital, watching him literally come back to life, learning how to tell time again, learning how to walk, all those things. 


that has to be, that has to have made a huge impression on you.  


[00:34:19] Marco: Yeah, for sure.  


[00:34:21] Brenda: I don’t know, I think for the further away from it, I get the more Shocking. It actually is like when you’re living it, it’s this is just what you’re doing that day. But then as you get a year or two or three or four past it, it’s wait a minute, that was crazy. 


[00:34:38] Marco: That really happens.  


[00:34:39] Brenda: How do you think that that has influenced your life, whether it’s good or bad or? Or indifferent how what do you think you’ve taken away from that whole experience of Not just not just the overdose and that but like this whole experience with your brother  


[00:34:59] Marco: I would say I’m, really thankful for it, which might sound crazy But I think it like when you go through something like that, I think it shapes like how you look at everything and so You know, obviously it started out with, little problems and it got bigger and bigger and more serious. 


And I think you just learn to grow and learn to like. fight through everything. So I think like something happens, it just makes you more like numb to certain things. So it just makes you stronger, really. But I think personally, it helped me grow. It really made me like realize that, you could have one problem one day and then, all of a sudden, That problem no longer is even on your mind because a whole different problem popped up because it’s like, bro, if he didn’t make any of those mistakes, like I wouldn’t be as good as I am at anything that I do today. whether I deal with problems really well now because of what he did, or if I just know, naturally, I think I don’t do certain things because I just know what the consequence is. 


I’ve seen it firsthand. I’ve seen the, I’ve seen the action and I’ve seen the, the reaction. So it is just direct. It’s just right in front of my face. So it makes me choose what I do and choose how I move. It really just shapes the way I look at, at certain problems. And it’s Oh, that’s not that bad. 


Or it’s I’ve, I’ve seen this before the experiences really just show you what to do and what not to do. So I’m really thankful that, that he went through what he did. yeah, I would just really say it really made me stronger  


[00:36:46] Brenda: I can see how you Are so mature in the way that you handle certain things that other kids you’re I call you kid But other young people your age might not have that same ability to Look at a problem or look at an issue and And deal with it in the way that you do because you have dealt with a lot already that a lot of people haven’t what do you think about just for for people who are listening so for parents who have a kid who’s Causing problems in the house. 


and then they have other kids Is there anything that you would say? That you wish we would have done differently to help you, that they might want to think about doing. So if you rewind to when you were in, seventh or eighth grade and he was starting to get into trouble and there’s tension in the house, is there any advice that you would say you might want to think about doing this? 


[00:37:49] Marco: It’s tough. It’s it’s tough because each situation is different, but I really think that the experiences of, obviously now that we can look back and say, Oh, if you do this and that, maybe I would, I wouldn’t have had as much stress because I wasn’t dealing with those problems the same way. 


So I think the experiences that we went through is there’s no like, that. Like rules that you should follow because as things happen, you just have to deal with them as they’re happening. So Looking back on it. I would definitely say that the hardest things were just not knowing what was going on So I would say just making sure that that that individual kind of knows the situation whether or not they I I guess it depends, everyone’s different, but I think some people would rather know what’s going on And it would help them deal with it because it’s not unknowing If you do know what’s going on, you can feel more comfortable because you’re not guessing, like there’d be nights where you’re like inside and you’re like, okay, I know he’s out doing this and that. 


At least I can, at least I know, instead of oh, he’s out there, he could be doing this. And now you start, you start making up scenarios and you start, you start thinking of, of all these different possibilities. So I think knowing could definitely help. So making sure that that person knows what’s happening, if they, if they can handle it. 


I think if. If they can know what’s going on, I think that would help a lot. But if they, if they can’t, if they can’t really handle the truth or if they can’t deal with the problems that way, I think just telling them like, Hey, we, we understand that we’re going through these problems and, you’re just in the background and whatnot. 


I think it’s just making them feel comfortable knowing that regardless of their situation that you and you and them still have that same relationship you had before. Because, you might feel like, Oh, there’s been another time on making sure he’s okay and doing this and that. what about me? 


I think just making sure that. You go out of your way and tell them like, look, like we’re dealing with this problem instead of just, dealing with the problems and let them figure it out. I think telling them like, look, I understand we’re dealing with these problems, but that has nothing to do with our relationship. 


Because I think you did a really good job of that in the sense of when there was something going on with him, like I was still. I was still cared for and stuff. what do you call it? I never felt shadowed or I never felt like I was just like all by myself. Cause at the end of the day, when he was gone and it was me and you, we still had the same interactions and we still had the same, it was as if nothing happened, really. 


It was just, we know in the back of our heads that there’s something else going on, but I think that’s what made us like closer or if not just like stronger, because we were going through it together, but at the same time, we still have our lives and we still have things that we need to take care of. 


So it was it was nice to know that, it didn’t affect our relationship regardless of whatever they had going on.  


[00:40:57] Brenda: Yeah, it was, it was really important to me because you were so involved in basketball during these years that I, I was seeing a therapist and she just told me, you doesn’t matter what’s going on. 


Be as involved as you can with your other son because he needs you and you need some normalcy. And I remember sitting at basketball games while in the background, there was insanity going on with him, but I was so happy to be there because it was normal and it was fun and it was watching you be so successful. 


And I think that is really important for parents to hear is that. It can be really hard to do that because you are exhausted, you’re scared, you’re confused, all of those things. And so to drag yourself out of bed or wherever you are and to be actively present in your other kids lives is so important. 


And I do wish that we had been more open with you about what was going on, because I can imagine that unknown was really stressful, and a lot of times I didn’t even know, so I guess there was a certain extent to which I could tell you because I didn’t know, but, for what you do know. in an age appropriate way and for what your child can handle to just let them know. 


And there’s a couple of other episodes. I will link to them in the show notes where I’ve had therapists and experts on who talk about exactly how to have this conversation with the other kids. So make sure and go to the show notes if you’re listening, because I will link to those are super important. I do think it’s so important to keep that in mind. 


That relationship and just try to have fun and to focus. And I know we did a couple of little trips. We went to, do you remember our trip to see nitro circus? So just try to do some stuff like that, where, you and I got to go away and just have some fun together, even though things were bananas at home, that was like a really special time for me because I got to see you one on one have that time just with us. 


[00:43:03] Marco: Yeah, I think for, for parents and the other kid that’s not going through problems, I think it’s really important. I would look at it as far as motivation. That’s just how I look at things. It’s okay, you don’t get to have these experience. you’re having all these bad experiences with one kid will take advantage of having another one. 


And, Do all the things that you wish you could do or do all the things that like you want to do with the other one and do it with this one, because you can’t control what the other one is doing, but you got to use what you, you got to use what you, what you have. So you have to work with what you got. 


And I think it’d be really, I think you got to look at it as a good thing. It’s okay, I’m blessed to have another child to take care of, obviously these problems are going on on this side. So let me make sure I do even better on this side because it can, not only will it help you as a parent, but I think it’ll help the other child as well, because you guys are both, I think that the experiences that we went through made us like stronger through. 


The problems that you had with my brother.  


[00:44:10] Brenda: I would agree. I would agree. And I think we do have a close relationship because of that or closer maybe relationship because of that because we have gone through so much and I wonder if often kids Who do go through this end up feeling like, okay, cause I know you saw me go through a lot of stress and, I got fairly sick and sometimes kids will say, okay, now I have to be perfect because I don’t want to cause any more stress for my mom, for my dad, for my family. 


And so they end up with this kind of almost perfectionism thing where they feel like I, I don’t get to. Have any  


[00:44:54] Marco: stakes?  


[00:44:55] Brenda: Yeah. what do you think about that? How has that played out in your life?  


[00:44:59] Marco: I think, feeling that pressure like, oh, I have to be, I have to be, my older brother was messing up. 


I got to be the perfect one. I think it’s obviously that’s really tough, but I feel like for me, I don’t look at it as much as pressure. I look at it more as Instead of feeling Oh, if I make a mistake, I’m going to be just like my brother. It was like my brother made all these mistakes. 


So now I feel like I have nothing to like, I have nothing to lose. everything I do can only be better. It almost makes it, a little easier for me. It, it, it really takes the pressure off of me actually. I think that’s why I had a hard, that’s why I had a hard time explaining, because it actually took the pressure off of me. 


[00:45:47] Brenda: That’s so interesting.  


[00:45:50] Marco: Yeah, because if you think about it, okay, I’m going to always be compared to my brother, and he just made these standards really, really low.  


[00:45:58] Brenda: The bar is low.  


[00:46:00] Marco: He set the standard pretty low for me, so I think it was, I think it actually made my job easier, because now, Let’s say I get an A in this class or let’s say I graduate high school that that alone is like already You know, i’m already doing better. 


So like it actually makes it a little easier fascinating  


[00:46:19] Brenda: I never thought about it in that way, but that’s really really interesting I love I love hearing that because it’s true and i’ve told you before and especially I think this was true in high school is you now have a mom who cannot be freaked out, right? 


Like I have seen it done. It hurt it Been there sat in the hospital like there’s pretty much nothing that you could do that would freak me out You’ve already seen that No matter what happens, I’m going to love you to death and do whatever I can to save you from whatever you trouble you may be in, whether it’s, something that you’ve gotten yourself into or something that has happened to you from the outside. 


just, as a family. We pull together and we, we get through. And so I’m also, I think it would be helpful for people to hear, what is your relationship now, like with your brother? Cause you guys went through a lot. What does that look like now?  


[00:47:20] Marco: our relationship, my brother is a lot, I think a lot better than it was before. 


Even though we. Before, when we were younger, we spent a lot of time together. I think our relationship is better now, even, even though we don’t see each other as much. Because I think we know we understand we’re at an age where we understand like how serious everything was that we were going through and to see us, on the other side of it. 


I think it really, it makes us closer and it whenever we do talk or whenever we are together. I think we just. I think we appreciate it 10 times more than we did before,  


[00:47:56] Brenda: right? Because, you can’t take it for granted. That’s what I see. I think, and I think our whole family has that perspective is that you cannot take these things for granted. 


You can’t take a day for granted because it might not be there. And in a way, and I know, I know he says the same thing is every day is a gift. Every day is. Like things don’t bother him even when he was here a couple weeks ago and we were driving somewhere and I made a comment about a driver and he said, Oh, mama, stuff like that doesn’t even bug me anymore. 


Like, why do you even care about that? Because his perspective is so different now, just having gone through everything that really nothing can  


[00:48:38] Marco: deter you.  


[00:48:39] Brenda: Yeah. Yeah. Do you think you have that in, in like in your business and when you look forward into your career and you’re the rest of your life, do you think that you have a different perspective? 


[00:48:49] Marco: Yeah, for sure. I think it made me, obviously not take things for granted, but also just look at. Look at things from a bigger lens. okay. If someone cuts me off, I could get mad about it. And then, my brother would be like, what are you, what are you going to do about it? 


are you going to get out the car and, go fight this guy? Or are you gonna, are you just going to keep driving and get to your destination safely? It’s what do you really want to risk? And what, what really matters? what’s really worth it. So like moving forward, I just look at it, take one day at a time and whatever you have today, just be grateful for it. 


And then, If we get another day, we’ll just do it again. And so like looking at things from a bigger picture, just not taking things so serious sometimes, because what, what is it really worth? what is this problem really worth? Or is it, is it worth me like thinking about it? 


is it, is it a negative thing? Is it a positive thing? Like just, it makes you realize what’s, what’s important and what’s, what’s more serious of, of my time, or what’s worth my time.  


[00:49:57] Brenda: For sure. it’s it. There’s a lot of pain, but there’s also such a big gift in the end if you choose to look at it that way. 


And I know so many of the parents that are listening are going through this exact thing. That’s why they’re listening to this. And so I think, we can be an example of the other side when you when you get to the other side. But even if Even if you’re still in the middle of it. I think what you said about take advantage of what you do have, I love that because it’s true. 


It’s look into the eyes of the, the kids that you do have around you that are, really needing you and needing a strong parent. And I think that’s one thing that I spent a lot of time working with. Parents is you have to stay healthy and strong, despite what’s going on for those other kids, because you, you’re holding all the balls in the air, right? 


It’s you can’t, you can’t fall apart. You don’t have that option, nor would you want to, but I think from your perspective, it’d be, I’d be curious actually to ask, cause I do spend so much time talking about this. Did you feel like you had a, did you feel like I was. Okay. And and strong enough or what were from your eyes looking at your mom, what was going through your mind? 


I  


[00:51:18] Marco: think it was, I was, there was times where I was like really worried because I would know what my brother is doing and I would know, the type of the type of stress he was giving you. So obviously I was always, I was more concerned for, I felt more concerned. More bad for you because I’m thinking, wow, this dude’s doing this and that. 


And, she has to deal with it. And, she’s the only one that. is really taking all the hits. So I was always definitely concerned about, how you’re feeling. And like I said, it’s, it’s worse when you feel like you can’t do anything, like you feel helpless. So it’s I really looked at it from a perspective, like all these problems that you’re getting hit with, I just knew they were making you stronger. 


I feel like you just had it under control, even sometimes when it made me feel like you didn’t, I just knew that you would always, I knew that, no matter what the problem was, at least I felt like you, you had it under control. I just, I didn’t really worry too much. I was more concerned about. 


how you were feeling and, because not only did you have problems with with Enzo, but you had more, you had work problems, you had, all these other problems. So I was definitely more worried about, how you were doing because no one was, as, as you were checking on him, like no one was checking on you, I feel  


[00:52:40] Brenda: Which is why I do what I do now, right? Because no one is checking on the parents and that’s, it’s so important because you’ve got to have somebody to turn to and somebody to hold you up and tell you that you’re making the right decisions and to be there so that you can turn around and then be there for your, the rest of your family. 


Anything else that you think people need to hear, parents need to hear, or if they send this to one of their other kids to listen to, is there anything else that you think really needs to be said?  


[00:53:12] Marco: I would just say, obviously when things are bad, like it’s easy to focus on the bad things. But I would say one of my biggest things that I take away from it is, we have all these negative things to focus on and we could put all our energy to these negative things. 


So my biggest thing that I would take away is really just, whatever energy you do have or whatever time you do have, I would say use it wisely and Take advantage of all the things that you do have because as much as you could focus on like the negative you should really just try to focus on the positive and and the good things that you do have because You know you if you spend all your time worried about these problems that you can’t really control It’s gonna just wear down on you and if you can put all that same energy towards the positive things that you do have, I think you can really, really capitalize on what you have. 


[00:54:13] Brenda: Wise words from a 21 year old. I love it. I love it. What’s next for you? What are you excited about, in the next few years about what you’re doing?  


[00:54:26] Marco: I’m excited to, I’m excited to grow, grow my business and, meet new people, whether I’m cutting your hair or selling shoes or, just having conversations, I just want to expand in a, in the sense of my network. 


also excited to travel and just, get back into normal, normal life after all this COVID. Stuff.  


[00:54:50] Brenda: Exactly. Where do you think your next trip is going to be?  


[00:54:53] Marco: I was just talking to some of my friends and we want to go to New York and and go into Canada and Toronto and Montreal.  


[00:55:00] Brenda: Nice. 
 
thank you for taking this time and Chatting with your mom. Thank you so much for listening. If you would like to go to the show notes, you can always find those at brendazane. com forward slash podcast. Each episode is listed there, all of the resources that we mention, as well as a place to leave comments if you would like to do that. 


You might also want to download a free ebook I wrote called Hindsight. Three things I wish I knew when my son was addicted to drugs. It’s full of the information I wish I would have known when my son was struggling with his addiction. You can grab that at brendazane. com forward slash hindsight. Thanks again for listening and I will meet you right back here next week.